Snoopy contraception bet

[Ben Kenobi]

I'll bet any amount with any of the polytubbies here, up to 1 grand that the position of the Catholic church, as stated by the Catechism of the Catholic church will continue to teach that contraception is wrong 10 years from this date of 6/25 2013.

If something happens to me - the bet will remain. The recipients of the bet shall be my family. Specifically my brother who will be instructed to discharge this.

Bets taken:

I'd put $10 will also be the Catholic Church's policy within a decade

Snoopy.

I will bet you P10.

Aeson.

[Elok]

I wouldn't take that bet, honestly. The RCC moves quicker than we do, but their strongholds are supposed to be mostly in the third world at this point--growing quickly in Africa, not so hot in Europe and the U.S. And the standard response to all calls to modernize and win over the young people is to point to Mainline Protestant church attendance.

Then again, I'm not Catholic. Don't know the dynamic there firsthand.

[Ben Kenobi]

I wouldn't take that bet, honestly. The RCC moves quicker than we do, but their strongholds are supposed to be mostly in the third world at this point--growing quickly in Africa, not so hot in Europe and the U.S. And the standard response to all calls to modernize and win over the young people is to point to Mainline Protestant church attendance.

Then again, I'm not Catholic. Don't know the dynamic there firsthand.

No, you've understood the dynamics quite well.

At least from where I sit.

I've been keeping my eye on the Catholic church for awhile now (and before I even changed my own mind on contraception and converted). It's been the teaching of the Church for a long time, and I don't see that changing. I'd be more concerned if the appointee were with the USCCB. As for Bergoglio - I've been reading quite a bit more on him (Ratzi was never a concern), and I really think everyone has missed the boat here.

The man was a chemistry parochial school teacher in the backwaters of Argentina, exiled by the Jesuits. Then John Paul II plucked him out of nowhere and brought him to Rome. He was then appointed a Bishop... He's not from the Latin American clique, and was badly treated by them. I don't think there is any love lost.

[giblets]

They already have the rhythm method so they might as well accept condoms.

[Elok]

Also there's a dumb joke I've heard more than once, told by people more knowledgeable than I: "How many Catholics does it take to change a light bulb?" "The Pope will convene the College of Cardinals, who will refer it to the Office for the Propagation of the Sacred Something-or-Other, who will consult with the Council of the Host of the Congregation, who will issue a finding to be published by the Second Curia of the Doctors of Theology. But nobody will ever actually change the light bulb."

I assume there's a grain of truth in that.

[Ben Kenobi]

Indeed. Italian bureaucracy and all. There's been talk of moving the Vatican from Rome, but that will never happen.

[Elok]

They already have the rhythm method so they might as well accept condoms.

I would estimate that, in the past year, at least two hundred ThD theses have been written on this subject, each with more than a hundred single-spaced pages explaining in excruciating detail why the Catholic Church sees a meaningful distinction there. A hundred and twenty-five pages, if you count footnotes, citations, etc. Three hundred theses if you include the ones focusing entirely on what one dead theologian or another said on the subject. You are talking about people who get borderline sexually aroused by minute, arcane distinctions the layman can't track.

[Hauldren Collider]

Modernizing would be new coke. It's a stupid idea. You are assuming that they could keep their current parishioners as active if they changed.

By the way, most catholics don't give a **** about the condom rule.

[Elok]

By the way, most catholics don't give a **** about the condom rule.

This also is a good point against change. The people who object to the rule largely ignore it anyway, so it's mostly a matter of broad principle.

[Ben Kenobi]

I would estimate that, in the past year, at least two hundred ThD theses have been written on this subject, each with more than a hundred single-spaced pages explaining in excruciating detail why the Catholic Church sees a meaningful distinction there. A hundred and twenty-five pages, if you count footnotes, citations, etc. Three hundred theses if you include the ones focusing entirely on what one dead theologian or another said on the subject. You are talking about people who get borderline sexually aroused by minute, arcane distinctions the layman can't track.

Do people sufficiently care for the explanation of the distinction?

It goes back to the understanding of what sex is and what sex means for the Catholic church. Specifically, Matthew 19:5.

"A man, therefore, will leave his father and mother and will cling to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.". King James has it as cleave.

"καὶ εἶπεν: ἕνεκα τούτου καταλείψει ἄνθρωπος τὸν πατέρα καὶ τὴν μητέρα καὶ ''κολληθήσεται'' τῇ γυναικὶ αὐτοῦ, καὶ ἔσονται οἱ δύο εἰς σάρκα μίαν."

"Kollethesetai" the greek means the joining of both body and spirit together. Both the flesh.

Contraception - barrier contraception inhibits both the physical and spiritual union between the partners. Both are holding back from the other.

As for the permissibility of choosing not to have sex - there's another scripture passage, 1 Cor 7:3-6

The husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife, and likewise the wife to her husband. The wife does not have authority over her own body but yields it to her husband. In the same way, the husband does not have authority over his own body but yields it to his wife. Do not deprive each other except perhaps by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.

Emphases mine. This is rather provocative I find for most to hear it put this way. So, it is permissible not to have sex by mutual consent, but only for a specific period of time. Husband and wife have duties to one another. This is why the Catholic church permits choosing not to have sex at certain periods of time, but does not permit contraception.

[DaShi]

I wouldn't take the bet because Ben is a known welcher.

[Wiglaf]

If something happens to me - the bet will remain. The recipients of the bet shall be my family. Specifically my brother who will be instructed to discharge this.

I bet your brother discharges a lot of things for you

[Wiglaf]

On you

[Wiglaf]

Semen

[Koyaanisqatsi]

Don't you still owe me a hundred bucks, BK?