Exodus President Alan Chambers realizes he's wrong and apologizes.

[giblets]

It's sad how shallow some people are, minimizing a loving relationship between a man and his horse by only thinking about the kind of sex the pair might be engaging in.

[Tuberski]

Alright, we get it, you love your horse!

ACK!

[Elok]

I once saw a webcomic where a guy walked into an old west town and started humping a horse. The locals say "hold on there, mister, we don't put up with that sort of thing in this here town." The guy replies, "but I have a medical condition. My lips get awful dry and chapped, see..." "And doing that with a horse helps your lips?" "Sure! It keeps me from lickin' 'em!"

[Elok]

Oh, and belatedly Re:OP: good. Ex-gay stuff is really frigging stupid. Sure, God can make you straight. In the same way that He can resurrect the dead. I don't see anybody promising the latter, since it's His decision, and the former's even dumber. St. Paul asked for "thorn removal" (nature of thorn not specified) three times and finally got told "no, and quit asking." The idea that you can quit gayness like it's cigarettes is absurd.

[Ben Kenobi]

Alright, we get it, you love your horse!

Not that there's anything wrong with that!

[Ben Kenobi]

The idea that you can quit gayness like it's cigarettes is absurd.

You think the cravings go away?

[Tuberski]

Not that there's anything wrong with that!

Don't use my statement in your attempts to conflate bestiality with homsexuality.

ACK!

[Elok]

You think the cravings go away?

What, for cigarettes or for dudes? I wouldn't know, either way. But if you don't stop wanting dudes--and I don't think you do--the whole "ex-gay" label is a crock.

[regexcellent]

wait I'm not going to read Ben's posts but did he claim to be ex-gay?

[DaShi]

Recovering.

[Ben Kenobi]

What, for cigarettes or for dudes? I wouldn't know, either way. But if you don't stop wanting dudes--and I don't think you do--the whole "ex-gay" label is a crock.

Cigarettes. It's not easy quitting smoking. Saying that you can't just *quit* like you can with smoking presupposes that quitting smoking is easy. It's not. It's really hard.

Is someone who has cravings to smoke and choses not to smoke, not an ex-smoker? I think the label *is* meaningful, and I think you can toss alcholics in the same bin too. Quitting is hard. People who have overcome addiction still struggle with it as time goes on.

This really is the core of the dispute. People have desires all the time. Do the desires matter or the actions?

[Ben Kenobi]

wait I'm not going to read Ben's posts but did he claim to be ex-gay?

Makes about as much sense as claiming to be an 'ex-smoker', when I've never smoked.

Some folks close to me have tried to quit smoking and found it really difficult. So I was a bit perplexed by Elok's argument that it's not like 'quitting smoking'. Quitting smoking isn't easy.

[kentonio]

This really is the core of the dispute. People have desires all the time. Do the desires matter or the actions?

Spend the rest of your life never touching a woman. If you think that's a reasonable expectation to put on a gay man not ever being intimate with another man, then you should be able to lead by example and spend the rest of your life celibate. We realize of course that you are likely to do that anyway due to your unique personality, however you can surely dispel any accusations of hypocrisy and vow to do it anyway? I mean, obviously you wouldn't expect millions of other people to suffer under a cruelty you wouldn't be willing to face yourself? That wouldn't be very Christian of you, would it?

[giblets]

wait I'm not going to read Ben's posts but did he claim to be ex-gay?

I think so.

[Ben Kenobi]

Spend the rest of your life never touching a woman. If you think that's a reasonable expectation to put on a gay man not ever being intimate with another man

Is it a reasonable expectation to 'forsaketh all others til death do you part?'

Like CS Lewis says, it is not that the Christian way has been found wrong, it is that the Christian way has been found difficult and then left untried.

Is it hard? Absolutely, I don't deny that. However, that's part of the point. If it wasn't hard or difficult, why bother?

then you should be able to lead by example and spend the rest of your life celibate.

Why? I'm not gay. There's absolutely nothing wrong with me choosing to marry an absolutely amazing woman who puts up with me. Until then, the command is to be chaste, but then I'm not sure you understand the distinction.

I mean, obviously you wouldn't expect millions of other people to suffer under a cruelty you wouldn't be willing to face yourself?

Life isn't fair, Kentonio.

That wouldn't be very Christian of you, would it?

Sorry, sometimes life just isn't fair. Everyone has their own individual difficulties that they have to overcome.