Farage crushes Cameron

[MikeH]

I'd say the increase in the number of athiests and decrease in the membership of the Anglican church is a move towards, not away from Christ.

No, away from all Religions/Deities. Which is good.

[kentonio]

TBH, the Catholic church has been about 10 percent forever. The Anglican Church went from 40 percent in 1983 to just 20 percent today. Was at 30 percent in 2004, they've lost 50 percent of their parishioners in just 5 years.

The reason why the CoE appears to lose huge numbers, is because until very recently pretty much everyone put their religion down on official documents as CoE regardless of whether they were religious or not. It was just the standard response. In the last decade openly calling yourself an atheist or agnostic has become far more socially acceptable, so people do it a lot more. We're an extremely secular country at heart.

[MikeH]

We totally should force RC churches marry gay couples if they want to be able to perform marriages though. Equal rights.

It's a shame that the Tory proposal specifically excludes churches. Massive cop out.

[MikeH]

The reason why the CoE appears to lose huge numbers, is because until very recently pretty much everyone put their religion down on official documents as CoE regardless of whether they were religious or not. It was just the standard response. In the last decade openly calling yourself an atheist or agnostic has become far more socially acceptable, so people do it a lot more. We're an extremely secular country at heart.

This is spot on.

[Ben Kenobi]

Damn right they're very important to me.

So, we've dispensed the 'no one cares'. Yes, yes people do care. On both sides.

You're trying to argue again proven stats though. 65% of people support gay marriage here. Not just support peoples right to be gay, not just the right to a civil partnership, 65% of British people support gay marriage.

I haven't misunderstood your argument. You've not understood mine. 65/3 < 35/1. Splitting 65 percent three ways gets you to 20 percent. Getting all the support of those who oppose gay marriage gets you 35 percent. That's the difference between winning an election and finishing fourth. And that 20 percent assumes you can collect enough as the third preference. It's more like 20/15/10 split, meaning the conservative party only would get about 20 percent of the support from gay marriage supporters at their best performance, which is only about 15 percent of the electorate.

The idea that every one of the other 35% consider it to be their primary voting consideration is utterly laughable. I come from an ex-mining village where homophobia was the norm, and while quite a few of those people would have said no to gay marriage, on their list of priorities it would come somewhere below the frequently of bin collections.

And you're assuming that people would rather vote for their 'third preference' rather than their first and second.

Unfortunately you're lying again. We are not trying to get Catholic churches to marry people. As normal you're a liar.

Yes, yes you are.

http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/news/2013/02/06/same-sex-marriage-will-put-catholics-under-intolerable-moral-pressures-says-bishop/

Just as the Church has been forced to abandon its adoption services, so too Catholics who work in the medical profession and in social services are going to find themselves under intolerable moral pressures

Money quote right there.

Yes, that's why I posted the figures above.

And the source for this is Gribbler's ass? I quoted Eurostat showing flat spending, but an increase in 2011. Some 'austerity'.

[Ben Kenobi]

We totally should force RC churches marry gay couples if they want to be able to perform marriages though. Equal rights.

I'm glad some folks on your side are honest, MikeH.

See, this is why I post on Poly. It's always good to know what your enemies want.

[Ben Kenobi]

No you'll have to live in Tejas for your sins - oh wait you live there already!

Hot chicks, hot food, hot weather? What's not to like about it?!

[Hauldren Collider]

Going to cause the Parliamentary Conservatives problems because their right wing will want to move further to the right on immigration, and be more anti-EU but they are constrained because their coalition partners won't let them.

Best Guess for next General Election - another hung parliament. But a lot can change in 2 years.

Thanks for the summary by the way.

[Ben Kenobi]

It might be that RC hasn't grown due to Polish immigration but has just not lost share as rapidly.

RCC is actually about 75 white British. Roughly in line with the total percentage.

Do you have a link for that MikeH? I've been looking for that for awhile now...

[kentonio]

So, we've dispensed the 'no one cares'. Yes, yes people do care. On both sides.

Lots of people care about fairness and equality. Very few care enough about preventing fairness and equality to vote for it above considerations like the economy. Basically it's just the religious extremists like you, of whom we thankfully have very few.

I haven't misunderstood your argument. You've not understood mine. 65/3 < 35/1. Splitting 65 percent three ways gets you to 20 percent. Getting all the support of those who oppose gay marriage gets you 35 percent. That's the difference between winning an election and finishing fourth. And that 20 percent assumes you can collect enough as the third preference. It's more like 20/15/10 split, meaning the conservative party only would get about 20 percent of the support from gay marriage supporters at their best performance, which is only about 15 percent of the electorate.

I already told you why this is stupid. it doesn't get any cleverer with repetition.

Yes, yes you are.

http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/news/2013/02/06/same-sex-marriage-will-put-catholics-under-intolerable-moral-pressures-says-bishop/

You ****ing moron, even that bigoted Catholic diatribe doesn't say what you think it says. They're whining about the 'redefinition of marriage', not that they would be forced to actually carry out marriage ceremonies.

Money quote right there.

Yes, it'd be awful if the poor dears were put under 'intolerable moral pressures' by having to live in a fair and equal society. here's a thought, maybe they should all **** off to Texas.

And the source for this is Gribbler's ass? I quoted Eurostat showing flat spending, but an increase in 2011. Some 'austerity'.

The source being HM Treasury, the people who actually spend the money you ****wit.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datab...-spending-1963

[MikeH]

I'm glad some folks on your side are honest, MikeH.

See, this is why I post on Poly. It's always good to know what your enemies want.

To paraphrase the language of the homophobes :

We wouldn't be forcing them to perform gay marriages, they would be free to choose to not perform marriage ceremonies at all.

[MikeH]

RCC is actually about 75 white British. Roughly in line with the total percentage.

Do you have a link for that MikeH? I've been looking for that for awhile now...

http://www.free-enterprises.co.uk/Religion-Statistics/British-Social-Attitudes/table-1999-2009/

I can't find more recent figures.

[MikeH]

BTW I would apply that marriage thing to all religions, obviously, not just RC.

[Ben Kenobi]

Ok, so not the UK census religion numbers from 2010.

[Ben Kenobi]

We wouldn't be forcing them to perform gay marriages, they would be free to choose to not perform marriage ceremonies at all.

Given that marriage is a sacrament, you're not going to get that.