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  • #511
    Originally posted by Ben Kenobi View Post
    Looking only at the constitution, I do not see a right to marriage inside of it. Ergo, equal protection via the 14th does not apply. I believe the state can restrict who can or cannot get married.

    Is that a satisfactory answer?
    Yes and a fair one at that.

    snnopy369 may be on to something with the idea of an updated 14th amendment. Hmmm....
    "I am sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and you disagree with this administration somehow you're not patriotic. We should stand up and say we are Americans and we have a right to debate and disagree with any administration." - Hillary Clinton, 2003

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    • #512
      It is ****ing lunacy to use the bible as a sole reference on morality and law.
      More narrowly, I'm a Thomist from the same school as Pope Leo XIII. Except in economics where I'm an Austrian and in Science where I'm a Cartesian Dualist. I only wish my philosophy class had taught Thomism. It would have saved me years of flirting with Kant.
      Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
      "Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
      2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!

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      • #513
        Originally posted by DinoDoc View Post
        Not Ben but I'll give it a shot. It should be an issue for the States or the people to decide. It's patently ridiculous for a nominally democratic country to be going to unelected officials on a repeated basis to decide such matters of policy.
        How does the federal government resolve the issue of gay couples legally married (and thus, in the absence of DOMA, enjoy the federal benefits of marriage) in one State that move to a different State where their marriage is not recognized?
        "I am sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and you disagree with this administration somehow you're not patriotic. We should stand up and say we are Americans and we have a right to debate and disagree with any administration." - Hillary Clinton, 2003

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        • #514
          Please accept the scripture as authority and never get married BK. The world will be a better place.
          I thought you said marriage was *awful*. Shouldn't you be encouraging me to marry?
          Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
          "Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
          2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!

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          • #515
            Originally posted by PLATO View Post
            How does the federal government resolve the issue of gay couples legally married (and thus, in the absence of DOMA, enjoy the federal benefits of marriage) in one State that move to a different State where their marriage is not recognized?
            How does the Federal government handle a 1st cousin marriage in Alabama where it is legal where the participants then move to Delaware where such marriages are prohibited?
            I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
            For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

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            • #516
              Originally posted by Ben Kenobi View Post
              This isn't Orthodox theology either... This is universalism.
              Would this help (coming form an Orthodox Priest):


              And this is a link Elok sent me a few years back (same Orthodox blog linked to last time) about the view of Metropolitan Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev:

              Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev on the Descent of Christ into Hades - Glory to God For All Things
              http://glory2godforallthings.com/bishop-hilarion-alfeyev-on-the-descent-of-christ-into-hades/
              This article may also be read at the Website, Orthodox Europe  Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: Christ the Conqueror of Hell The Descent of Christ into Hades in Eastern and Western Theological Traditions A lecture delivered at St Mary’s Cathedral, Minneapolis, USA, on 5 November 2002 The Byzantine and old Russian icons of the Resurrection of Christ […]


              By theological division, I'm examining the content not the issues over interpretation and precedence. Doctrine. Most protestants equate doctrine = theology.
              The division is significant enough to the Orthodox that you are not allowed to participate in the Eucharist in their churches (even though they may participant in your churches - but that would violate the rules of Orthodoxy as much as if you were to partake in the Eucharist in a Baptist Church).
              “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
              - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

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              • #517
                Originally posted by DinoDoc View Post
                How does the Federal government handle a 1st cousin marriage in Alabama where it is legal where the participants then move to Delaware where such marriages are prohibited?


                I honestly don't know. I would assume that they would still enjoy the federal benefits of marriage.

                Is it really legal to marry your first cousin in Alabama?
                "I am sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and you disagree with this administration somehow you're not patriotic. We should stand up and say we are Americans and we have a right to debate and disagree with any administration." - Hillary Clinton, 2003

                Comment

                • #518
                  Originally posted by DinoDoc View Post
                  How does the Federal government handle a 1st cousin marriage in Alabama where it is legal where the participants then move to Delaware where such marriages are prohibited?
                  Originally posted by PLATO View Post
                  I honestly don't know. I would assume that they would still enjoy the federal benefits of marriage.

                  Is it really legal to marry your first cousin in Alabama?
                  I shall tell you. The federal government allows the states to set their own rules. If you get married in NY and move to Alabama, and it is against Alabama's public policy for first cousins (or homosexuals), Alabama is under no obligation to recognize the marriage. However, the federal government does recognize the marriage as performed in NY and allows them federal benefits even if the state they are in does not recognize it.
                  “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
                  - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

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                  • #519
                    Originally posted by Ben Kenobi View Post
                    I'm a history teacher. It's my JOB to know these sorts of things. I thank Poly for immersing me into the intricacies of American jurisprudence...
                    Poly has apparently done a pretty ****ty job once again. If you think the intent of the founders has no bearing on the constitution, then you're an idiot. We already knew this of course.

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                    • #520
                      Originally posted by PLATO View Post
                      Is it really legal to marry your first cousin in Alabama?
                      If it makes you feel better, it's legal in California as well.
                      I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
                      For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

                      Comment

                      • #521
                        The division is significant enough to the Orthodox that you are not allowed to participate in the Eucharist in their churches (even though they may participant in your churches - but that would violate the rules of Orthodoxy as much as if you were to partake in the Eucharist in a Baptist Church).
                        Again, I don't see how it profits the Orthodox to adopt Universalism. The parable of Lazarus is pretty clear that there is a great gulf between Heaven and Hell. I can see why it's attractive, it's one of those old lies that always seems to percolate.
                        Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
                        "Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
                        2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!

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                        • #522
                          The parable of Lazarus and the rich man is also... wait for it... a parable. I don't think the prodigal son was based on actual facts either, but meant to give a lesson .

                          And read what Metropolitan Alfeyev says on the matter. It naturally flows from Christ being the Conqueror and Victor of Death.
                          “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
                          - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

                          Comment

                          • #523
                            Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui View Post
                            I shall tell you. The federal government allows the states to set their own rules. If you get married in NY and move to Alabama, and it is against Alabama's public policy for first cousins (or homosexuals), Alabama is under no obligation to recognize the marriage. However, the federal government does recognize the marriage as performed in NY and allows them federal benefits even if the state they are in does not recognize it.
                            Thank you sir. So if DOMA is struck down, then essentially the issue is left to the States. If a gay couple marries in a State where it is legal and resides in another State then they should enjoy the federal benefits of marriage. Not so sure that this may not be a good solution.
                            "I am sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and you disagree with this administration somehow you're not patriotic. We should stand up and say we are Americans and we have a right to debate and disagree with any administration." - Hillary Clinton, 2003

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                            • #524
                              Originally posted by DinoDoc View Post
                              If it makes you feel better, it's legal in California as well.
                              Yeah, well my wife is from Alabama. (and no, we are NOT cousins!)
                              "I am sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and you disagree with this administration somehow you're not patriotic. We should stand up and say we are Americans and we have a right to debate and disagree with any administration." - Hillary Clinton, 2003

                              Comment

                              • #525
                                The parable of Lazarus and the rich man is also... wait for it... a parable. I don't think the prodigal son was based on actual facts either, but meant to give a lesson
                                I'm not quite sure why Jesus would see fit to just start making stuff up.

                                And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’
                                Luke 16:26. Seems that those in Hell know what they are missing out in Heaven, but that they are not on the same plane.
                                Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
                                "Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
                                2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!

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