Surpeme Court Gay Marriage Cases....

[self biased]

i'm sorry, but watching you argue ben is downright painful sometimes.

[Sava]

Christians believe that sodomy is a sin.

Your personal views on the matter should not be equated with all of Christendom... or Jesus Christ's, for that matter.

[N35t0r]

Can't say I agree I think Imran raised some excellent points worthy of further discussion.

I was resonding to you wrt Plato's post.

[MichaeltheGreat]

i'm sorry, but watching you argue ben is downright painful sometimes.

Salting slugs is entertainment on work breaks.

[Ben Kenobi]

Original Nicene Creed (325) doesn't mention Scripture. Constantinople's addition (381) adds "in accordance with the Scriptures" in talking about Christ's death, burial, and resurrection, speaking obviously about the Old Testament. Do you wish to have Kid affirm the authority of the OT and not deal with the NT .

If I did - and it's not a bad argument - that gets me to the OT is authoritative and the OT says that God condemns homosexuality. So that doesn't get you to where you want to go.

Statements of belief are usually considered authoritative for groups.

Ah, I see. So when Apostle Paul condemns homosexuality in Corinthians that's considered to be authoritative for Christians?

I guess the question is what is so special - for Christians, about the Nicene Creed?

[Ben Kenobi]

Your personal views on the matter should not be equated with all of Christendom... or Jesus Christ's, for that matter.

Good thing Jesus Christ spoke about this already.

Those of you playing at home know what verse is about to come. Matthew 19:4-6

“Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’ and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’? So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.”

What do you think 'be united', means Sava?

[Imran Siddiqui]

If I did - and it's not a bad argument - that gets me to the OT is authoritative and the OT says that God condemns homosexuality. So that doesn't get you to where you want to go.

Also shellfish and tattoos...

Thank you Jesus .

Ah, I see. So when Apostle Paul condemns homosexuality in Corinthians that's considered to be authoritative for Christians?

While very difficult for you, stop being deliberately obtuse .

I guess the question is what is so special - for Christians, about the Nicene Creed?

It is an affirmation of faith by the community. That or the Apostle's Creed. So, therefore, its the only thing that really is demanded (I understand that in the Catholic faith, there is more, and for children in some liturgical Protestant churches there is confirmation, etc. - its a generalization).

Non-creedal Christians (evangelical Protestants), tend to say their creed is the Bible - so they attempt make that authoritative, though they don't demand everyone swear to it. I don't belong to one of those churches .

[SlowwHand]

Methodists have confirmation.

[Ben Kenobi]

It is an affirmation of faith by the community.

Community? Don't you mean the Magisterium? It wasn't the community that wrote the Nicene Creed.

So, therefore, its the only thing that really is demanded (I understand that in the Catholic faith, there is more, and for children in some liturgical Protestant churches there is confirmation, etc. - its a generalization).

Where does this statement come from? Who's the authority behind it?

[kentonio]

Not really. He's no worse than ken or MOBIUS.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Community? Don't you mean the Magisterium? It wasn't the community that wrote the Nicene Creed.

Is it only the "Magisterium" (IIRC, a term that arose in the 19th Century) the only one who recites it?

Where does this statement come from?

When people join liturgical Protestant churches, all that is required (for the most part) is to declare that you want to join the community and then recite the Apostle's or Nicene Creed.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Methodists have confirmation.

IIRC, there are "High Church" Methodists and "Low Church" Methodists. Some of the low church ones do not, I believe (basically indistinguishable from a lot of Southern Baptist congregations).

[Dinner]

So who won? The spineless simpletons or the fabulous fags?

The consensus of the SCotUS watchers (and remember those guys are lucky if they predict rulings right half of the time so we might as well just be flipping a coin here) is that it will be 5-4 to dismiss the prop 8 case because Kennedy is scared to do what needs to be done (namely: make marriage equality the law of the land) so that would mean Prop 8 dies and gay marriage is once again legal in California but nothing changes any where else. The DOMA case looks like it will be a bigger fight and will likely also be a 5-4 decision and the debate is will they throw out DOMA but still let individual states decide or will they go whole hog and make marriage equality the law of the land.

Sadly we won't know for three months or more.

[Ben Kenobi]

Is it only the "Magisterium" (IIRC, a term that arose in the 19th Century) the only one who recites it?

Arguing that it has authority in that it is recited doesn't address why you're reciting the Nicene Creed in the first place. Why do they recite the Nicene creed at all? Why not something else?

When people join liturgical Protestant churches, all that is required (for the most part) is to declare that you want to join the community and then recite the Apostle's or Nicene Creed.

If someone asks me, "what is required to join the Catholic church and become a member", I can point them to the Catechism. Where does this requirement come from in your church?

[Dinner]

It can only end with government getting out of marriage altogether. Strike that word from all laws. If people want hospital visitation rights, there are PoAs for that. If people want reduced tax burden, they can register a household or if the government wants to promote birth, they can register as cohabitating parents of a child.

That would be stupid as there are numerous international treaties governing things like recognizing marriages performed in other countries or what not. It seems simple to just admit everyone is equal and go on from there without trying to change the laws of every country on Earth.