Are states' rights more important than human lives?

[ricketyclik]

So toss it away then.

Yes.

[giblets]

Assuming zero funding for Planned Parenthood and other abortion providers in America.

You'll agree to have the government pay for everyone's health care as long as Planned Parenthood has to rely exclusively on private donations? Okay.

[kentonio]

Assuming zero funding for Planned Parenthood and other abortion providers in America.

You just reminded me why discussing this stuff with you is pointless. Thankfully you are in a minority on the issue so we get to sit and laugh as you repeatedly bash your head against the table like a tantrum'ing toddler. Abortion is not going anyway, and contraception certainly isn't going anywhere. Women have this strange aversion you see to becoming breeding animals who pop out endless children until their bodies are worn out.

[Ben Kenobi]

You'll agree to have the government pay for everyone's health care as long as Planned Parenthood has to rely exclusively on private donations? Okay.

That was the original deal under Tommy Douglas which got corrupted along the way. Sadly, that's not the world we live in today, so Obama's plan is doomed to fail.

He was offered that back in 2010, and he rejected it to pursue the present course.

[Ben Kenobi]

You just reminded me why discussing this stuff with you is pointless. Thankfully you are in a minority on the issue so we get to sit and laugh as you repeatedly bash your head against the table like a tantrum'ing toddler. Abortion is not going anyway, and contraception certainly isn't going anywhere. Women have this strange aversion you see to becoming breeding animals who pop out endless children until their bodies are worn out.

When Gribbler agrees with me, and not you, that's a sure sign that it's your vision of America that's on the way out.

America can't continue going on as she has. Something has to give. For some people, they love abortion more than welfare or social security, and so that other worthless stuff will go.

As for women, I'm not sure why I should take your opinion over my own? I know plenty of very kind and wonderful young women who find the abortion crap and the whole industry sickening. They would love to be married (and most are married now), and working on their families. Remember, I came very late to this party, and I have been learning stuff as I go along. I was one of you and on your side, and not that long ago. Most of my family are as pro abortion as they come. I'm used to going to church by myself and being ridiculed for my opinions. You couldn't say anything to me that my family already hasn't raked me over the coals for over the years.

[kentonio]

It's contraception that women won't agree with you on, which I said quite clearly. Please learn to read. What is especially idiotic about your views is that free and easily available contraception would do more than anything else to lower the abortion rate. So here's a question for you: if you could cut abortion rates in half by giving free tax payer funded contraception to anyone who wanted it, would you do it?

[Ben Kenobi]

It's contraception that women won't agree with you on

Depends on the woman you're talking about. I know some amazing young women who are Catholic just like me. Who do you think I came over for in the first place? I don't come with these views in a vacuum, I was taught them by my Catholic friends - some of the closest friends that I have. Some, in a different world from this one that I'd be married to, if I and they had made different choices at different points.

I realize that my views are hardly mainstream - but then that's not the Catholicism I know and the Catholicism that I was taught. I was taught Chesterton, and Hahn, and fed a pretty steady diet of both of them. You can pretty much track the evolution of my thoughts here, if you so bothered. Go back to say 2004 or so, you'll see it there. I wasn't sure then about quite a few things, least of all about Catholicism. But the year later, I had pretty much sorted things out.

free and easily available contraception would do more than anything else to lower the abortion rate.

Given that contraception can be an abortifacient (excepting barrier methods like condoms), that's a no-sell.

So here's a question for you: if you could cut abortion rates in half by giving free tax payer funded contraception to anyone who wanted it, would you do it?

That's a good question. I would say no. For the reason above.

[dannubis]

How about this... Universal health care, but feet and knees aren't included?

Don't forget to exclude hearing aids...

[Kidlicious]

You yourself said, "why should we care about why people choose to use child porn"

Cain said the same thing.

Hitler said the exact same thing that you are saying!

[Sava]

I don't understand why BK is conservative on economy issues. The pope says global free market capitalism is the greatest threat humanity.

[kentonio]

I don't understand why BK is conservative on economy issues. The pope says global free market capitalism is the greatest threat humanity.

Very good question.

[Ben Kenobi]

I don't understand why BK is conservative on economy issues. The pope says global free market capitalism is the greatest threat humanity.

I believe economics is a science and thus scientific evidence prevails.

[Imran Siddiqui]

I believe economics is a science and thus scientific evidence prevails.

You realize just about no economist believes economics is a hard science. Social science, yes, but that's not exactly one that results in such hard and fast scientific evidence.

Pope Benedict XVI on economic issues

[Ben Kenobi]

You realize just about no economist believes economics is a hard science.

One, that's an argument from authority, no different then arguing that Aristotle was right about heavy objects having an affinity for the earth.

Two, I believe that the most reliable information concerning secular matters must be derived empirically. Economics is no exception.

that's not exactly one that results in such hard and fast scientific evidence.

Then the information that is not empirical is unreliable.

[Imran Siddiqui]

One, that's an argument from authority, no different then arguing that Aristotle was right about heavy objects having an affinity for the earth.

You'd imagine those that created the social science would know best. I didn't realize Aristotle created heavy objects, or the Earth.

Do you give the same deference to History being a science?

Then the information that is not empirical is unreliable.

Strange statement for a Christian to make.