We are in the midst of the 148th anniversary of Sherman's march to the sea.

[Dauphin]

Monsanto, Dow Chemical and other companies that made Agent Orange set up a massive fund for veterans. PR? Maybe.

[kentonio]

Yeah, but he was making general points about statistics without any of the actual medical knowledge that the people doing the actual studies had. He might have a few points about statistics as a field, but I'm calling bull**** on a guy on a forum knowing more about the study of diseases than an entire field of medical professionals.

[Dauphin]

reg might have. He went on a long rant that pretty much demonstrated that he didn't know what he was talking about. However, Kuci made some strong arguments that what statistical significance researchers have found is debatable.

If they weren't debatable then we wouldn't be debating it 40 years later.

[giblets]

Considering how tobacco companies fought tooth and nail to convince the public that tobacco really isn't bad for you even though it obviously is, it would be remarkable if big businesses just gave in without a fight and agreed to compensate veterans if agent orange wasn't bad for you.

[kentonio]

Monsanto, Dow Chemical and other companies that made Agent Orange set up a massive fund for veterans. PR? Maybe.

Something tells me its more likely to start raining pigs than those guys admitting responsibility for something they didn't do. Surely that would have opened up huge potential for future liability?

[Dauphin]

Something tells me its more likely to start raining pigs than those guys admitting responsibility for something they didn't do. Surely that would have opened up huge potential for future liability?

IIRC it was to settle a lawsuit.

[DaShi]

If they weren't debatable then we wouldn't be debating it 40 years later.

I was thinking the same thing when I wrote that.

[kentonio]

IIRC it was to settle a lawsuit.

Yep..

The chemical companies involved denied that there was a link between Agent Orange and the veterans' medical problems. However, on May 7, 1984, seven chemical companies settled the class-action suit out of court just hours before jury selection was to begin. The companies agreed to pay $180 million as compensation if the veterans dropped all claims against them.

[regexcellent]

I explained that there's never been any serious evidence linking Agent Orange to the diseases it supposedly causes. I showed some evidence (the air force personnel who handled the substance) that there is in fact no harm at all. I also explained why the people who claim it harmed soldiers and civilians in the Vietnam War have suspect motives and no particular reason to be truthful. Kuci went into the nuts and bolts explanation of the statistics.

What I said boils down to this:

* USAF personnel who handled agent orange suffered no ill effects out of proportion to other military personnel who served in that period, despite drinking the stuff
* It's not difficult for the Vietnamese government to whistle up some kids with birth defects and people with horrible skin ailments to snap photos of and pass them off as Agent Orange victims
* The Agent Orange controversy was started after the war was over by an anti-war activist who was upset that he had nothing to protest about after the war ended
* Considering the highly political nature of the Agent Orange controversy the fact that the US government hands out money it shouldn't to Agent Orange "victims" means absolutely nothing
* People receive all sorts of benefits from the government and consider them sacrosanct, no matter how bull**** they are, and veterans are no exception to this
* People will do all sorts of sleazy **** to get free money from the feds

[kentonio]

If they weren't debatable then we wouldn't be debating it 40 years later.

It isn't debatable, which is what made Reg's initial claim so utterly and completely ridiculous. The only people other than him and other likeminded wackos who continue to deny it are the chemical companies who made that ****.

[regexcellent]

Monsanto, Dow Chemical and other companies that made Agent Orange set up a massive fund for veterans. PR? Maybe.

Obviously it's political. Perception is reality in politics and PR.

[regexcellent]

It isn't debatable, which is what made Reg's initial claim so utterly and completely ridiculous. The only people other than him and other likeminded wackos who continue to deny it are the chemical companies who made that ****.

You also believe gulf war syndrome is a real thing, don't you?

[regexcellent]

Considering how tobacco companies fought tooth and nail to convince the public that tobacco really isn't bad for you even though it obviously is, it would be remarkable if big businesses just gave in without a fight and agreed to compensate veterans if agent orange wasn't bad for you.

Not really, because Dow doesn't still make Agent Orange. Tobacco companies still sell tobacco.

Nobody on this forum has been able to provide any kind of reasonable evidence for Agent Orange actually being dangerous. All anyone's been able to turn up are bull**** meta-studies and unrelated crap about "oh, this person pays money to this person for political reasons so clearly I am right."

[giblets]

Yep..

So let's see... either:
1. It can't be proven in court that agent orange is harmful, but they didn't think $180 million was worth the effort of defending
2. It can be proven

Hmmm.....

[DaShi]

That is not a convincing argument.

Ex-post, but whatever, that statement is always applicable here.