Hey Slowwy! You should be proud of your daughter!

[The Mad Monk]

Tell me, is self defense regulated? Are there laws on the books relating to it?

[kentonio]

That is only relevant in as much as the act of self defense is not illegal in this context. The dead man still did not receive a state administered trial and judicial sentence. You'll notice the legal penalties for breaking and entering and even assault/rape etc are not death.

I'll stress here one more time that I'm supportive of her actions in this case.

[MikeH]

Tell me, is self defense regulated? Are there laws on the books relating to it?

In the UK yes.

http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/s_to_u/self_defence/#Reasonable_Force

Short version - you can use reasonable force to defend yourself but it has to be proportionate to the threat. Someone breaking into your house alone almost certainly wouldn't be enough for the use of lethal force to be be considered reasonable force in terms of self defence. Though that would depend on the specific circumstances and would be for prosecutors to decide whether to prosecute and then ultimately for a jury to decide.

[The Mad Monk]

x-Mike'd

So when police shoot a criminal who is shooting at them, are they giving him a trial and sentence, or are they acting as vigilantes, or is there another option here?

I still look forward to your examples, BTW.

Examples? Please?

[kentonio]

Short version - you can use reasonable force to defend yourself but it has to be proportionate to the threat. Someone breaking into your house alone almost certainly wouldn't be enough for the use of lethal force to be be considered reasonable force in terms of self defence. Though that would depend on the specific circumstances and would be for prosecutors to decide whether to prosecute and then ultimately for a jury to decide.

They've tried to loosen the rules recently from what I understand to make people more confident about their right to defend their home, but I don't know how far that ended up going, or whether its actually on the law books yet.

[kentonio]

So when police shoot a criminal who is shooting at them, are they giving him a trial and sentence, or are they acting as vigilantes, or is there another option here?

Being part of the state legal system, police acting in an official capacity would not count as vigilantism by my understanding.

[The Mad Monk]

I'll stress here one more time that I'm supportive of her actions in this case.

That's fine but we're looking at something else now. Your POV is fascinating.

[Ben Kenobi]

Ben has met my daughter, and she's of good heart.

I for one was quite impressed by her. She's a very kind lady.

I read this article and thought that's how she would have dealt with this situation too.

[kentonio]

That's fine but we're looking at something else now. Your POV is fascinating.

I felt the need to stress it to avoid anyone else coming into the thread, not reading most of the posts, and shouting at me for supporting evil burglars and rapists because of being a revolting liberal.

[The Mad Monk]

Being part of the state legal system, police acting in an official capacity would not count as vigilantism by my understanding.

So you're saying that that if it is condoned by the state, it cannot be vigilantism, trials notwithstanding?

[Ben Kenobi]

You think the appropriate reaction to someone getting shot to death is to go celebrate the shooter on being prepared?

Kentonio, I've been a victim of a home invasion once myself and I didn't have a gun at the time. It also wasn't two men (just one punk), and he wasn't in the house yet. I am glad that she was far more prepared then I was, and so had more options available. That one of the men died from the shooting wounds - is a consequence of his decision to break into the house.

[kentonio]

So you're saying that that if it is condoned by the state, it cannot be vigilantism, trials notwithstanding?

No, lethal self defense is condoned by the state, but I'd find it extremely difficult to define actual officers of the state, carrying out their official duties as in any way vigilante. Vigilante to me requires the individual to be acting in place of the state, usually due to a belief (accurate or not) that the state is incapable of effectively protecting them.

[kentonio]

Kentonio, I've been a victim of a home invasion once myself and I didn't have a gun at the time. It also wasn't two men (just one punk), and he wasn't in the house yet. I am glad that she was far more prepared then I was, and so had more options available. That one of the men died from the shooting wounds - is a consequence of his decision to break into the house.

I've also been in that situation, but with two intruders both much bigger than myself. If I'd had a gun present I would have absolutely shot both of them. This is a large part of why I said I support her actions.

[Ben Kenobi]

I've also been in that situation, but with two intruders both much bigger than myself. If I'd had a gun present I would have absolutely shot both of them. This is a large part of why I said I support her actions.

So how did you extricate yourself from that situation?

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

You think the appropriate reaction to someone getting shot to death is to go celebrate the shooter on being prepared?

Two men break into the house, and she defended herself successfully? She was taught well.

Considering this is what Ben explicitly said, yes. I will trust the author's claim of intent for the passage as opposed to some hate addled interpretation of his motive.