Hey Slowwy! You should be proud of your daughter!

[Kidlicious]

No. That's not vigilante behavior. She didn't take the law into her own hands. What she did was legal.

[kentonio]

No. That's not vigilante behavior. She didn't take the law into her own hands. What she did was legal.

So? She still took the law into her own hands, since when did vigilante have to mean illegal?

[Kidlicious]

The word vigilante has a negative connotation. It would be vigilantism if she went to a black neighborhood and started killing gang members. That's what you are communicating in this thread.

[kentonio]

The word vigilante has a negative connotation. ... That's what you are communicating in this thread.

In that case, my apologies for a bad choice of language. I did however also say..

It's not about whether or not the woman was right to defend herself (I absolutely believe she was)

..which I thought might have cleared it up.

[The Mad Monk]

It was vigilante behavior. It was also perfectly legitimate vigilante behavior.

I do not think that word means what you think it means.

[kentonio]

I do not think that word means what you think it means.

I think you actually don't know what that word means and has meant at various times. Although it is often used to describe illegal or mob justice, it can be used in a wider sense to describe someone simply taking the law into their own hands, which an extra-judicial execution would certainly fall under.

As I said to Kid however, I regret using it because it clearly caused confusion.

[Kidlicious]

There you go again, now calling it "extra-judicial execution."

[kentonio]

Which is inaccurate how? Although I support her right to defend herself, lets not pretend that this wasn't someone being killed outside of the justice system. What term would you prefer? 'Super-justified bad-guy removal'?

[Kidlicious]

I wouldn't even say that she killed him, certainly not that she executed him. She simply defended herself. The words that you use carry meaning that you don't seem to be aware of.

[kentonio]

I wouldn't even say that she killed him, certainly not that she executed him. She simply defended herself.

Then with all due respect you're being an idiot. She did kill him, and trying to minimize the importance of that is a terrible mistake.

The words that you use carry meaning that you don't seem to be aware of.

No Kid, I understand very well the weight of the words I'm using, and I'm using them for a very specific reason which I explained previously. When someone is in a situation where they are deliberately endangered by someone, they have every right to defend themselves and protect their lives and safety. At the same time it's equally important to recognize that the taking of life is bloody important, and something that shouldn't ever be met with the kind of high fiving celebrations of Ben and Sloww earlier in this thread. Not only is it grotesque and irresponsible, but it's harmful to society to have people applauding killing.

[DinoDoc]

Actually it depends on which translation you use.

Actually it depends on if you go by the original source material or not.

[The Mad Monk]

Which is inaccurate how? Although I support her right to defend herself, lets not pretend that this wasn't someone being killed outside of the justice system. What term would you prefer? 'Super-justified bad-guy removal'?

: a member of a volunteer committee organized to suppress and punish crime summarily (as when the processes of law are viewed as inadequate); broadly : a self-appointed doer of justice

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/vigilante

"Vigilante justice" is rationalized by the idea that adequate legal mechanisms for criminal punishment are either nonexistent or insufficient. Vigilantes typically see government as ineffective in enforcing the law; and such individuals often presume to justify their actions as fulfillment of the wishes of "the community".

Persons alleged to be "escaping the law" or "above the law" are sometimes the victims of vigilantism.[2]

Vigilante behavior involves various degrees of violence. Vigilantes may assault targets verbally or physically or may vandalize property or actually kill individuals.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vigilante

Concise Oxford English Dictionary © 2008 Oxford University Press:
vigilante /ˌvɪdʒɪˈlanti/
▶noun a member of a self-appointed group of people who undertake law enforcement in their community without legal authority, typically because the legal agencies are thought to be inadequate.

http://www.wordreference.com/definition/vigilante

Now, shall we tackle "extra-judicial execution"?

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

I'm still puzzling over how the OT was construed as cheerleading of killing. Ben was pretty explicit in that he was congratulating an otherwise victim from having the appropriate training and willpower to defend herself. That others attempted to read it as an advocation of killing simply illuminates how hate inspired those individuals are, particularly when it comes to all things Ben.

[kentonio]

Actually it depends on if you go by the original source material or not.

That's beautiful, shame you didn't bother reading your own link fully.

The fact remains, however, that even the Jewish translators were not unanimous in maintaining a consistent distinctions between the various Hebrew roots.

Don Isaac Abravanel and others noted that ratsah is employed in Numbers 35:27-30 both when dealing with an authorized case of blood vengeance, and with capital punishment--neither of which falls under the legal category of murder.

In fact, some distinguished Jewish philosophers believed that "thou shalt not kill" is a perfectly accurate rendering of the sixth commandment. Maimonides, for example, wrote that all cases of killing human beings involve violations of the command, even if the violation happens to be overridden by other mitigating factors. It has been suggested that this tradition underlies the virtual elimination of capital punishment in Rabbinic law.

Viewed from this perspective, we may appreciate that the translation "thou shalt not kill" was not the result of simple ignorance on the side of Jerome or the King James English translators. Rather, it reflects their legitimate determination to reflect accurately the broader range of meanings of the Hebrew root.

As usual, careful study teaches us that what initially appeared ridiculously obvious is really much more complex than it seemed at first glance. We should be very cautious before passing hasty judgement on apparent bloopers.

[kentonio]

"Vigilante justice" is rationalized by the idea that adequate legal mechanisms for criminal punishment are either nonexistent or insufficient.

Was there an adequate legal mechanism for defending her in this instance?

I'm sure you're feeling all super awesome because you're repeating an extremely obvious point (With quotes too, go you!) that vigilante is commonly used in the sense of a post-crime retribution taking place outside the law. I should have expected that Poly was a poor place for nuance.

Now, shall we tackle "extra-judicial execution"?

Ooohhhh, let's!! You can post some dictionary definitions that you cherry pick to refer specifically to executions carried out by the state, and then you can feel all glowy and special while I beat my head repeatedly against my desk in frustration.