Petraeus Done

[Alexander's Horse]

still is

[DaShi]

George W. Bush was a cheerleader.

It's good choice for you too.

[Pax]

Holly Petraeus has probably been overweight for decades. You don't just get out of shape overnight. Also there is nothing wrong with wanting to be youthful and vibrant. Too me It's like that twilight zone episode kick the can. I notice that people stop doing things that kept them young. Stop going out. Stop playing sports. stop playing in general. Next thing you know all they do is sit around. On the porch. In the living roll. Lethargy sets in and you're all of sudden very very old.

[Aeson]

Yah, time passing probably has nothing to do with aging

[Aeson]

Take my parents for example. My dad is pushing 70, farm work most of his life. Looks a lot like his dad at 70, also farm work all his life. Usually hard, physically demanding work. And yah, that time, that stress, and their genetics ... they put on weight. Much of it was muscle of course, but as he's aged it's not so much. The weight isn't due to inactivity. The change in his body type isn't either.

My dad is still working. He doesn't do 16 hour days during harvest anymore, but he still puts in more time than most will. On his time off he goes hiking up in the mountains, or builds things like a pergola, sun room, new porch or new cement pad to spruce up the house he built with his own two hands on his "days off" when he was younger. (Like, his late 40's.) Other things he did on those days off were taking our scout troop on camping trips, or other volunteer work for his church, friends, or neighbors. Now he takes care of his own garden and goes on his LDS Mission to help Native Americans on reservations fix up their gardens. Between his job and 9 kids, plus the volunteer work, he may never have actually had a day off since he was in college.

I take after my mom. She was rail thin well into her 30's, and is still on the thin side of average in her late 50's. She's active, but never has worked out as far as I know. She's a house-wife who had 6 kids and volunteers at her church and goes hiking with my dad sometimes.

I've never been over 180lbs (at 6'1") and usually 170lbs or so. I can sit around eating nothing but donuts, pudding, and bacon while playing video games for years on end and not gain a pound. (I've actually done this.) My brothers who look more like my dad tend to gain weight even when active. My brothers who look more like my mom don't, even when not active.

Then there's the old couple who lives nearby here. I don't know how old they are, I'd guess in their 60's, they look older than that but it's a hard life. They don't have anyone to support them. He still works his rice fields. Today when I went out to the farm, I crossed the rice fields as usual, and he's out there knee-thigh deep in mud with his carabao, harrowing the mud to get it ready for planting. It's in the 90's, 95% humidity or more, and scorching sun. And he'll be out there all day. I couldn't do that work on my best days, and he's 60. Not many Americans could do that work. I end up with a fever after about 3-4 hours of work in that kind of heat/humidity.

He and his wife will do much, if not all of the planting and harvesting of their fields. If I get up at at 5am and go out to the farm, he's already out there taking care of his carabao. If it's after sundown when I head back, he's still out there. They don't have water to their house. If they want it, they pitch it from a well that might be a couple hundred yards away. No washing machine, it's all done by hand. If they want viand to go with their rice, they grow it or gather it. She's always out plucking herbs and vegetables out of the brush, or helping to move the carabao.

With all that hard work, every day of their life, and a diet that probably isn't sufficient much of the time, they still have put on weight from when they were younger. That's just the body's natural reaction to stress and time.

When you look at Holly Petraeus, you see someone who's "let themself go". You imagine a lifestyle for her to attribute this too. I don't know what her lifestyle has been, neither do you. You're obviously ignorant of the wide range of possibilities as to why she looks like a normal 60 year old. You're obviously delusional about what an active 60 year old is usually going to look like.

[Alexander's Horse]

looks like she stopped changing her hairstyle in 1977

[Pax]

Yah, time passing probably has nothing to do with aging

Of course people age. Age is A factor. Not the ONLY factor. Holly Petraeus does not do farm work BTW. I am only speculating on her lifestyle. I realize that. But my speculation is that her lifestyle does not involve a gym but does involve not watching what she eats. That's me judging her solely based on how she looks. If I found out later that she really works out on a regular basis I would not only be wrong about her...I would be extremely surprised.
Furthermore, we judge people on how they look all the time. That means you as well. I am more biased against overweight people partially bee when I see people eating to excess it disgusts me.
Once again, I know the effects of aging, I put on about 30 lbs from age 27 to 41. I took off about 30 lbs from 41 to 42. I am saying from personal experience that the lbs accumulate over the course of time if you don't watch it.
After losing all that weight, I look and feel younger, stronger and more energetic. BTW, before I lost the weight, I still looked young, and energy and strength were not an issue in my life. Still I feel great because I changed my lifestyle.
My father 72 years old. Was constantly getting sick and etc a few years back. The medicine was NOT working. We all attributed to age and thought he would die soon. My dad started exercising and of course, he is not as strong as when he was 40 years old but he stopped getting sick and it appears that he has a new lease on life. I am a proponent of good living through exercise and diet. I do not believe that **** is random and we can't control our destiny or our bodies. Death is inevitable but we can eat and live a life that will keep it and fat at bay for as long as possible.

[Pax]

Also there are 60 year old people that are not movie stars and etc that are in damn good shape. I come into contact with them all the time. So once again age is not an excuse.

[Alexander's Horse]

freaks like Petraeus

[Aeson]

Of course people age. Age is A factor. Not the ONLY factor.

Age (and childbirth, which does affect the physique) are the only obvious, verifiable factors in regards to Holly Petraeus. Outside that we don't know jack **** about her lifestyle. Which you absurdly admit and then continue to argue against ...

I am only speculating on her lifestyle. I realize that. ... That's me judging her solely based on how she looks.

Thus why you're a superficial jerk. Now that you've accepted every last bit of reasoning as to why you are a superficial jerk, just accept that it was a perfectly reasonable label to give you and we can be done here.

Furthermore, we judge people on how they look all the time. That means you as well.

That doesn't mean all judgments are equal.

In this case you are assuming a lifestyle in your ignorance and arguing against the only obvious and factual factors. Then you compare her to supermodels and actresses. That is why your entire line of argument is superficial, delusional, and displays ignorance just for the sake of being derogatory.

When I judge Holly's look, I note that age is obviously a factor, I note that I don't know anything else about her. I'm not trying to make up a lifestyle to attribute to her based on the way she looks. I am sticking to verifiable facts.

My method of judgment is far superior to the one you are using.

I am more biased against overweight people partially bee when I see people eating to excess it disgusts me.

Yes, you are obviously biased, and letting that bias get in the way of reason.

If you really believe that a person shouldn't neglect their mental fitness, you need to take a hard look at your reasoning here so that maybe you can learn why you are behaving so ignorantly. Then work on bettering yourself. Because the disgusting thing in this thread isn't how Holly looks, but your stereotyping of people you don't know based on displayed, admitted, and willful ignorance.

Once again, I know the effects of aging, I put on about 30 lbs from age 27 to 41. I took off about 30 lbs from 41 to 42. I am saying from personal experience that the lbs accumulate over the course of time if you don't watch it.

It's great that you've been able to get your weight under control. (Outside the fact that it seems to be feeding your ignorance to have done so.) You have to realize though that your specific situation is going to have countless differences to someone elses.

You haven't given birth. You aren't yet 60. You aren't Holly's identical twin. Those are obvious ones you aren't accounting for.

Weight naturally accumulates over time based on many factors. Genetics are a huge one. Stress is another. No one is saying diet and exercise aren't factors, they just aren't such overwhelming ones that assumptions like you are making are not ignorant.

My father 72 years old. Was constantly getting sick and etc a few years back. The medicine was NOT working. We all attributed to age and thought he would die soon. My dad started exercising and of course, he is not as strong as when he was 40 years old but he stopped getting sick and it appears that he has a new lease on life.

That's great. But does he look like Sylvester Stalone? Very, very few seniors are going to look like that, whether they work out and watch what they eat or not. On top of a healthy lifestyle, you need to have good genetics (height, bone structure, and how your body stores fat among many other things), plenty of resources (time and energy to devote to superficial sculpting of your body), plenty of resources (access to the best therapy and surgery can offer), and plenty of resources (being able to avoid stress in your life).

My dad developed a lung disease since he was in his 30's. Essentially has had pneumonia for 40 years. Never smoked ... just bad luck that a specific fungus that doesn't affect most people affects him. That's why he had to leave his good job in Washington (pass up full time at most of the good jobs available in his field) and move to Utah. That meant he had to work harder, take on extra consulting jobs, to earn the same money. More stress from work and physical ailments completely outside his control. A lot more travel. It's an obvious factor in his weight gain. You'd look at him though and assume he's lazy, gluttonous and disgusting even though he's definitely not. He's not obese by any means, but neither is Holly. You're just a delusional, superficial *******.

I am a proponent of good living through exercise and diet.

That's not the part that gets you in trouble. Stop being a proponent of ignorant stereotyping based on your admitted bias, and maybe you won't come off sounding like someone who has "let himself go" mentally.

I do not believe that **** is random and we can't control our destiny or our bodies. Death is inevitable but we can eat and live a life that will keep it and fat at bay for as long as possible.

It depends on how much time and resources you can devote to it. Someone working a stressful job 12 hours a day and raising kids on top of it isn't going to have much time or energy to devote to going to the gym and sculpting their body by working muscles they don't actually use to much effect in their daily life. If they work outdoors, it will be very difficult to avoid sunlight which damages the skin. Various jobs will have other environmental stressors.

If they aren't independently wealthy, they'll probably have a lot of stress regarding finances, and that also takes it's toll.

There are some things in our control, but most people will never look like a supermodel no matter how hard they try.

Also there are 60 year old people that are not movie stars and etc that are in damn good shape.

I will almost surely be one of them. What you still aren't understanding (even though you admit they are factors) is that there are factors that are entirely outside of people's control that can dictate weight gain to a large extent.

[Pax]

Sorry, it took so long to respond. I just got back from the gym. The key here is that you look at Holly Petraeus and you assume that it is her age and giving birth to children that makes her look the way she does. I look at her and assume that she is not working out and not eating well. Also some of your arguments regarding being wealthy, sunlight and lung cancer do not apply to Holly Petraeus. Also I'm not thinking she should look like a supermodel. Also, I'm not talking about her wrinkles or grey hair. Just her weight.
Once again, I do not think that Holly Petraeus woke up at 60 and was out of shape. Here are two links to ideal body weight that includes age and height. Just eyeballing but I think Ms. Petraeus is out of range.

http://www.halls.md/ideal-weight/body.htm

http://www.calculator.net/ideal-weight-calculator.html

Honestly, this is my opinion on being overweight. Weight is something that can be controlled.
This is my opinion on aging. Aging is something that cannot be controlled.
Therefore even though we can't control aging, we can control to an extent our weight and health.
Feel Free to disagree. Jackass

[MrFun]

I don't judge the human worth of a person based on whether or not they work out.

[Pax]

Neither do I. However, it's a proven fact that people make voting and hiring choices based on appearance.

[Aeson]

[QUOTE=Pax;6176583]The key here is that you look at Holly Petraeus and you assume that it is her age and giving birth to children that makes her look the way she does.[quote]

No. You can't even grasp simple concepts, can you? I look at Holly Petraeus and see a normal looking 60 year old. I know that she is ~60 years old. I know being 60 years old is going to factor into how someone works. I can thus deduce that the fact that she is 60 years old has something to do with how she looks. I do not overstep that to assume anything about other factors at work, because I don't know what else is going on in her life.

That isn't an assumption. It's accepting the obvious fact that age influences how someone looks, and that we know her age.

I look at her and assume that she is not working out and not eating well.

Which are of course completely ignorant assumptions as you don't know anything about her lifestyle in that regard.

Also I'm not thinking she should look like a supermodel.

Your pictures you showed depicting what you think 60 year olds should look like were all actresses and supermodels. Why are you so afraid to admit that was what you posted?

Just eyeballing but I think Ms. Petraeus is out of range.

Your eyeballing it is noted. Again you're just talking out your ass to try to dump on some woman's lifestyle even though you've never met her and don't actually know anything about her lifestyle.

Honestly, this is my opinion on being overweight. Weight is something that can be controlled.

To an extent, which will vary from individual to individual. Some people find it very easy to control their weight. Other's have difficulty. I've never had 30lbs extra pounds to lose in my life. You have. I doubt it's because of lifestyle, I'm just naturally thin. Other's are naturally heavier. That can be compounded by a great many factors, the only one of which we are sure is at play in Holly's case is age. Everything else you're trying to add to that is just baseless speculation that makes you sound like an ignorant ass.

[Pax]

Aeson,
Bottom line. I have an opinion

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-18346128

http://thestir.cafemom.com/beauty_style/140016/american_apparel_gets_60yearold_to

These are everyday 60 year old women. I have an opinion and I have a reason for it. You may not agree. But it does not make me a jerk or shallow because I believe that a person can age gracefully vice looking like time is kicking their ass.

This a 27 year old female before and after pic that shows what can be done and to make my point that people get overweight before 60.

http://www.teambeachbody.com/connect/message-boards/-/message_boards/message/164611284

Here are some 20 and 30 something women. This is where it starts. Not at 60.