Mitt Romney Would Pay 0.82 Percent in Taxes Under Paul Ryan's Plan

[Kuciwalker]

Real world practicality like "oh man it is so hard to put oil on boats and sail them around the world."

multi-xpost

[snoopy369]

Could you take the oil argument back to that thread and get the **** out of this one?

[Ben Kenobi]

Which is why Asher works on the commodity trading floor.

[Jaguar]

You cannot magically increase your imports from overseas to match the lack of imports from Canada within any short time period (~5 years).

The "logistical concerns" are renting boats and having them dock in Louisiana and New Jersey. Yes, it takes work, but really? Five years? The United States won World War II in less time than that.

[Kuciwalker]

Let's re-examine the context of the debate.

I was making the hypothetical case of Canada suspending oil shipments to the USA. I said this would radically **** the USA in the short-term.

You replied that "no it won't, it's fungible!".

Oil (like any form of energy) can be replaced in the long-term. But in the short-term, you cannot. It's not fungible in the short-term.

You cannot magically increase your imports from overseas to match the lack of imports from Canada within any short time period (~5 years). There's infrastructure and logistical concerns, compounded with the fact that oil from around the world varies significantly and each type has its own refineries. You can't just take oil from Saudi Arabia and refine it in the midwest.

Is Canada also losing the benefit from selling that oil for the same time period?

[Asher]

Real world practicality like "oh man it is so hard to put oil on boats and sail them around the world."

multi-xpost

Yeah. Just load up the oil on boats.

Do you not watch the news at all?

Look how ****ing hard it is to even build a pipeline over one province...look how ****ing hard it is to get tanker sailing rights on your coasts. Do you know how many years it takes to build a modern supertanker? Do you know what kind of pipeline capacity they require? Do you know how ****ing hard it is to build massive pipelines across a country when every single ****ing state opposes it?

You guys have no clue how the industry works. None. You have no idea the complexities involved in the industry. We're talking about aboriginal rights, provincial/state rights/laws, federal states/laws, environmental laws, politics, and projects on the orders of trillions of dollars and hundreds of thousands of workers. This is not a matter of "put oil on a boat and ship it".

[Asher]

Is Canada also losing the benefit from selling that oil for the same time period?

Quite obviously, yes it is.

[Asher]

Could you take the oil argument back to that thread and get the **** out of this one?

It's hard enough to get them to sit still. Every time the argument comes up, they display remarkable ignorance and arrogance and through the magic of groupthink, believe they're correct.

Besides, it's certainly a more entertaining discussion than taxes and deficits. Long story short, republicans want to tax the poor and benefit the rich and democrats and to tax the rich and give away money to the poor. Blah blah. Find some new arguments.

[snoopy369]

More interesting, less interesting, who the **** cares. The point of having 'threads' in a 'forum' is to separate these discussions so that those of us who actually want to discuss a specific thing without reading about another thing can do so.

[Asher]

Don't worry, they're done now and have nowhere to go again. HC will bring it up again in a couple weeks and pretend like this never happened.

[Hauldren Collider]

Yeah. Just load up the oil on boats.

Do you not watch the news at all?

Look how ****ing hard it is to even build a pipeline over one province...look how ****ing hard it is to get tanker sailing rights on your coasts. Do you know how many years it takes to build a modern supertanker? Do you know what kind of pipeline capacity they require? Do you know how ****ing hard it is to build massive pipelines across a country when every single ****ing state opposes it?

You guys have no clue how the industry works. None. You have no idea the complexities involved in the industry. We're talking about aboriginal rights, provincial/state rights/laws, federal states/laws, environmental laws, politics, and projects on the orders of trillions of dollars and hundreds of thousands of workers. This is not a matter of "put oil on a boat and ship it".

And how does this prevent you from taking a couple extra tankers and running them across trade routes that already exist?

[Asher]

And how does this prevent you from taking a couple extra tankers and running them across trade routes that already exist?

Well, for starters, you need a ****load more than a "couple tankers".

Secondly, do you really think that there are dozens of tankers sitting idle? They cost a FORTUNE to build and insure, they do not sit idle...

Thirdly, do you think that the port facilities have the capacity to store millions of extra barrels of oil?
Thirdly (point 5), do you think there are enough tanker berths for the huge increase in tanker counts in port?

Fourthly, do you think the pipelines from the gulf inland are high enough capacity to offload the extra barrels?

Fifthly, do you just instantly build a pipeline large enough inland from the ports (which do not even come close to existing)? Those refineries are depending on oil coming inland from Canada -- that's how the tens of billions of dollars of infrastructure was developed.

You and Kuci and Jaguar are clearly simpletons. I've no other explanation for this stunning display of stupidity.

[Kuciwalker]

Don't worry, they're done now and have nowhere to go again. HC will bring it up again in a couple weeks and pretend like this never happened.

We got lunch.

[Hauldren Collider]

And yet, none of what asher is saying seems to be able to explain the fact that oil prices trivially account for the very things us "simpletons" are describing.

[Hauldren Collider]

Well, for starters, you need a ****load more than a "couple tankers".

Secondly, do you really think that there are dozens of tankers sitting idle? They cost a FORTUNE to build and insure, they do not sit idle...

We can build more tankers.

Thirdly, do you think that the port facilities have the capacity to store millions of extra barrels of oil?
Thirdly (point 5), do you think there are enough tanker berths for the huge increase in tanker counts in port?

Do you think our ports all operate at capacity all the time?

Fourthly, do you think the pipelines from the gulf inland are high enough capacity to offload the extra barrels?

Funny thing, we can move oil on ships, but we can also move oil on trains. And trucks!

Fifthly, do you just instantly build a pipeline large enough inland from the ports (which do not even come close to existing)? Those refineries are depending on oil coming inland from Canada -- that's how the tens of billions of dollars of infrastructure was developed.

Who is talking about pipelines?