Mitt Romney Would Pay 0.82 Percent in Taxes Under Paul Ryan's Plan

[Hauldren Collider]

See, the fundamental problem with Asher's point is not that these problems don't exist, but that they are very solvable and the market reflects that.

[Kuciwalker]

Well, for starters, you need a ****load more than a "couple tankers".

Secondly, do you really think that there are dozens of tankers sitting idle? They cost a FORTUNE to build and insure, they do not sit idle...

Thirdly, do you think that the port facilities have the capacity to store millions of extra barrels of oil?
Thirdly (point 5), do you think there are enough tanker berths for the huge increase in tanker counts in port?

Fourthly, do you think the pipelines from the gulf inland are high enough capacity to offload the extra barrels?

Fifthly, do you just instantly build a pipeline large enough inland from the ports (which do not even come close to existing)? Those refineries are depending on oil coming inland from Canada -- that's how the tens of billions of dollars of infrastructure was developed.

You and Kuci and Jaguar are clearly simpletons. I've no other explanation for this stunning display of stupidity.

What, exactly, is your hypothetical? That (for all practical purposes) Alberta vanishes into a black hole for a few years? Yeah, sure that would probably cause some short-term disruption. So what? That's true of almost every populated region in the first world (including ****holes like Michigan).

The hypothetical you've traditionally argued is one where Alberta decides, in a fit of pique, that it will refuse to sell oil to the US and sell it to China instead. In which case... yes, the "just put the oil on a boat" argument works fine.

[Hauldren Collider]

Pwned.

Now we can get back to why capital gains taxes suck!

[Asher]

See, the fundamental problem with Asher's point is not that these problems don't exist, but that they are very solvable and the market reflects that.

I'm not referring to market prices at all. The fact that you still are demonstrates your lack of understanding of the debate at hand.

The market can solve this, but not in the short-term. Something Kuci just conceded in the "pwnage" you referred to. If it's fungible in the short term, you just replace it with something else.

[Hauldren Collider]

That "something else" would be the strategic oil reserve. We have oil speculation in the US, too you know.

[Asher]

We can build more tankers.

Not in the short term.

Do you think our ports all operate at capacity all the time?

Really damn close to, yes.

Funny thing, we can move oil on ships, but we can also move oil on trains. And trucks!

You sure can. Just like how you can snap your fingers and create all of the infrastructure to load/unload/store the oil from those train cars.

Who is talking about pipelines?

The man in this conversation who understands the industry in question.

[Hauldren Collider]

Asher, the other day a grain truck crashed and caught fire on I-66 and blocked traffic for several hours. Do you think that shock to the local grain market made grain any less fungible? That supply is gone! We can't just make a new truck in the short term or replace the grain.

[Hauldren Collider]

Asher has correctly observed that a serious shock to the oil supply chain could potentially cause a disruption on the scale of a few months while infrastructure is built up. Which is what happened when Hurricane Katrina hit New Orleans. But even the entire province of Alberta refusing to sell oil to the US couldn't do more than mess us up for a month or two while we did super-complicated things like rent oil tankers and renovate trainyards.

[Asher]

Asher has correctly observed that a serious shock to the oil supply chain could potentially cause a disruption on the scale of a few months while infrastructure is built up.

It's not a few months. This is what you do not comprehend. It'll be years.

Again, you do not understand the industry or its complexities. Or even simple logistics.

This is not a matter of ivory tower economics. It's a matter of logistics, politics, and infrastructure.

[Asher]

Asher, the other day a grain truck crashed and caught fire on I-66 and blocked traffic for several hours. Do you think that shock to the local grain market made grain any less fungible? That supply is gone! We can't just make a new truck in the short term or replace the grain.

Anyone who compares the capability to refine and transport millions of barrels of oil per day across an entire continent with the crash of a grain truck is, frankly, an idiot.

[Guynemer]

(including ****holes like Michigan).

OY!

[Hauldren Collider]

Is he wrong?

[Guynemer]

THAT IS HARDLY THE POINT

[rah]

I'll never forgot our annual golf outings to central and upper mich. Some of the most beautiful courses you can imagine.
Normally when you're sitting at the banquet after the golf outing you're looking at the prize table and checking out all the golf clubs, sports chairs, wines, and vacation packages.
There, the prizes were mostly rifles, shotguns and the special raffle prize was a 38. (which came with a carry permit) The one vacation prize was a daddy daughter hunting trip (archery).
It was quite different than I was used to. One of our foursome pulled up in the parking lot and pulled out a garbage bag full of deer jerkie for us to snack on. All day he spewed racists crap. Later I had to remind him that I was one of those wops he was *****ing about. (his reply was that at least I wasn't a sand ******) Yes, quite touching.
But all in all there were a lot of great people and I wouldn't consider the whole state a **** hole.

[DinoDoc]

THAT IS HARDLY THE POINT

Auto industry unions.