Originally posted by Elok
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How does this happen? Chick-fil-A branded as anti-gay?
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Originally posted by MrFun View PostCan someone explain to Elok that giving gay people equal marriage rights does not force churches to marry gay couples?If there is no sound in space, how come you can hear the lasers?
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Originally posted by Kuciwalker View PostWe enshrine some rights (speech) and leave others subject to balancing tests of various strengths (constructing buildings).
This is perfectly reasonable because some rights are genuinely more important than others.
The right to marry your loved one and make medical decisions for them if they're incapacitated is far more important to me than the right for Chick-fil-A to sell **** in Boston.
1) The distinction is peculiar to the particular legal rights enshrined in our Constitution as inviolate. I don't have any particular objection to enshrining this one, either, but it isn't there right now and so it would be inconsistent with democracy for our judiciary to invent one.
Americans conflate freedom with constitutional rights."The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "
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Originally posted by Asher View PostThe right to marry your loved one and make medical decisions for them if they're incapacitated is far more important to me than the right for Chick-fil-A to sell **** in Boston.
Or at least, he would rather strip away any semblance of free speech, just to have the courts sign off on some ****ing property rights.If there is no sound in space, how come you can hear the lasers?
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Originally posted by Hauldren Collider View PostNoted: Asher would rather live in a dictatorship than a jurisdiction without gay marriage.
But this is quite typical of debating with Americans about freedom. "If you're not aligned with our current constitutional laws, you support communism/dictatorships/etc".
Regulating who I can marry is far more of a potential example of a dictatorship than regulating where businesses operate is. I hold individual, personal rights as far more sacred than the rights to businesses.
We already regulate where businesses operate. I suppose any city which outlaws brothels are dictatorships, too."The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "
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Originally posted by Hauldren Collider View PostNoted: Asher would rather live in a dictatorship than a jurisdiction without gay marriage.
Sounds about right either way.“I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
- John 13:34-35 (NRSV)
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Originally posted by Asher View PostI'm sad, HC. You still do not understand the argument.
But this is quite typical of debating with Americans about freedom. "If you're not aligned with our current constitutional laws, you support communism/dictatorships/etc".
Regulating who I can marry is far more of a potential example of a dictatorship than regulating where businesses operate is.
We already regulate where businesses operate. I suppose any city which outlaws brothels are dictatorships, too.If there is no sound in space, how come you can hear the lasers?
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Originally posted by Hauldren Collider View PostCan someone explain to you that this has nothing to do with the issue actually being discussed, you ****ing moron?A lot of Republicans are not racist, but a lot of racists are Republican.
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Originally posted by Asher View PostBut you have tons of laws restricting speech. How can you have free speech if I'm not allowed to say what I want, when I want, how I want?
Says who?
The right to marry your loved one and make medical decisions for them if they're incapacitated is far more important to me than the right for Chick-fil-A to sell **** in Boston.
More importantly, I didn't claim speech was less important than marriage. I claimed speech was less important than the right to construct buildings.
This is pretty much exactly my point.
Americans conflate freedom with constitutional rights.
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Originally posted by Hauldren Collider View PostNo, saying you oppose free speech means you support dictatorship.
Did I say the owners of Chick-fil-A should never be allowed to talk or something?
It's not regulating business, it's regulating speech. Chicago's actions are directly punitive to Chick Fil A, expressly for the reason that it says things that make them sad. That is not regulating business.
People can say what they want, I can do what I want. If you come into my shop and tell me I'm going to hell because I'm gay, I'm going to kick you out. I'm not restricting your freedom of speech, I'm exercising my freedom to restrict who can be on my property."The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "
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Originally posted by Kuciwalker View PostThe latter speaks to a much more general right - the right to say what I believe even if it's unpopular.
Why is it an example of freedom to be able to say what they want to say, but not an example of freedom to react to what they say?
If somebody comes on your property and insults you endlessly, are you not infringing on his freedom of speech if you kick him off for it?"The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "
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CFA executives have the freedom to say whatever they want and publicly declare whatever they want. But practicing that right is not without positive or negative consequences.A lot of Republicans are not racist, but a lot of racists are Republican.
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Originally posted by MrFun View Post(devil's advocate) In other past threads, you have expressed full support for Canada's laws suppressing hate speech.
Canada happens to have one where inciting violence against an identifiable minority group is not permitted. I do support that.
I also support slander, libel, public-panic, etc laws. So do most Americans. Most Americans, therefore, oppose free speech. Right?"The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "
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I'm agreeing with you on your distinctions in regard to different forms of free speech. I just thought I'd play devil's advocate, since I thought someone else was bound to bring it up anyway.A lot of Republicans are not racist, but a lot of racists are Republican.
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