Catholic church condones child rape and is against the abortion that will save her life

[Asher]

Let's compare decades of widespread sexual abuse and cover-up with a nuclear accident.

That sounds like a winning idea.

[loinburger]

So you're insinuating that because I joined the Church in 2005 that I must somehow have been part of the Catholic church abuse scandal?

Of course not. If somebody converts to Hinduism and immediately begins to defend the caste system then this doesn't mean that he's personally discriminated against any untouchables. If somebody converts to Islam and immediately begins to defend suicide bombing then this doesn't mean that he's going to turn into a suicide bomber. If somebody converts to Catholicism and immediately begins to defend pedophile priests then this doesn't mean that he's a pedophile priest. All it means in all three cases is that the convert is a terrible human being.

[Ben Kenobi]

Let's compare decades of widespread sexual abuse by bishops with male lovers on the side, and his subsequent cover-up of said abuse with a nuclear accident.

FTFY.

Hey, radioactivity does eventually go away.

[Ben Kenobi]

If somebody converts to Catholicism and immediately begins to defend pedophile priests then this doesn't mean that he's a pedophile priest. All it means in all three cases is that the convert is a terrible human being.

So how am I 'defending pedophile priests', when I'm calling out the Bishops responsible not only for perpetrating the abuse, but also for permitting the priests to operate in their ecclesiastical provinces for a period of close to 40 years? That dog isn't going to hunt loinburger.

[Proteus_MST]

Ok, and now that many of the problems associated with the aforesaid 'culture of complacency', have been dealt with - does that indicate that the US Nuclear power remains unsafe? That's my point. Three Mile Island was over 30 years ago. Things can and do change in that scope of time. Gaging the Church of today by the one in 1975, is no different than judging the US Nuclear industry today based on three mile Island.

Fukushima shows, that even modern nuclear powerplants aren´t absolutely safe

[loinburger]

So how am I 'defending pedophile priests'

Do you still disapprove of pedophile priests being tried under criminal law instead of under ecclesiastical law, or have you changed your tune?

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Ok, and now that many of the problems associated with the aforesaid 'culture of complacency', have been dealt with - does that indicate that the US Nuclear power remains unsafe? That's my point. Three Mile Island was over 30 years ago. Things can and do change in that scope of time. Gaging the Church of today by the one in 1975, is no different than judging the US Nuclear industry today based on three mile Island.

"have been dealt with" is a past tense phrase. The point being is that a process is established but is only as good as the emphasis that continually needs to be applied, be it the nuclear industry or emphasis on processes of other organizations. An improvement or backslide in the span of 30 years may or may not be indicative of the next generations commitment to the processes. So I agree an organization (or group of organizations) are not necessarily comparable, likewise they are not necessarily predictive of where they will be in another 30 years.

[Ben Kenobi]

Do you still disapprove of pedophile priests being tried under criminal law instead of under ecclesiastical law, or have you changed your tune?

Do I support the Church cleaning out the sty herself? Absolutely. I think the eccesiastical punishments should be far harsher then what criminal law would do. Weakland would never be prosecuted under criminal law. Good luck trying. The man's untouchable, no one in the criminal law section would go after him for anything, let alone what they've already got him documented doing.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Fukushima shows, that even modern nuclear powerplants aren´t absolutely safe

A. Fukishima wasn't a modern nuclear power plant.
B. The design wasn't the issue per se but moreover again the culture of complacency and lack of questioning attitude regarding the design basis assumptions in order to push the envelope of safety.

[loinburger]

Do I support the Church cleaning out the sty herself? Absolutely. I think the eccesiastical punishments should be far harsher then what criminal law would do. Weakland would never be prosecuted under criminal law. Good luck trying. The man's untouchable, no one in the criminal law section would go after him for anything, let alone what they've already got him documented doing.

There you go - you want to shield priests from the law, ergo you are a defender of pedophile priests. It's not rocket science.

[Ben Kenobi]

The point being is that a process is established but is only as good as the emphasis that continually needs to be applied, be it the nuclear industry or emphasis on processes of other organizations. An improvement or backslide in the span of 30 years may or may not be indicative of the next generations commitment to the processes. So I agree an organization (or group of organizations) are not necessarily comparable, likewise they are not necessarily predictive of where they will be in another 30 years.

If the process were sufficient in fixing the problems of the nuclear industry in the united states, then why shouldn't we expect the same of the Catholic church? I agree that vigilance is very necessary. This is why the bishops piss me off so much. They had a responsibility to their flock, and the reason this went on for so long is because rather then do what needed to be done - they let it slide.

Then I see the same organizations on the outside blaming everything but the people responsible. I guess it hurts that the truth is they contributed to the laxity of the priests by encouraging them to sin and not see sin as sin. Still do, in fact. Why are so many of the abusive priests all coming up at the same time in the United States coinciding with the so-called 'sexual revolution'? It's not a coincidence. Trash the church for 'obsolete' doctrines like clerical celebacy, and turn your back when that reaps the whirlwind.

[Ben Kenobi]

There you go - you want to shield priests from the law, ergo you are a defender of pedophile priests. It's not rocket science.

Then why hasn't the criminal justice system charged Weakland? Explain that to me, loinburger.

[loinburger]

Then why hasn't the criminal justice system charged Weakland? Explain that to me, loinburger.

You're saying that you want some hypothetical ecclesiastical justice system to replace the non-hypothetical criminal justice system, and you point to the failure of the criminal justice system to prosecute one elderly and well-connected bishop as though this somehow justifies its complete replacement. Hey, if I find an example of a Muslim apparently escaping justice then would this justify the adoption of Sharia law? Or do only Catholics get special treatment by the criminal justice system?

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

If the process were sufficient in fixing the problems of the nuclear industry in the united states, then why shouldn't we expect the same of the Catholic church? I agree that vigilance is very necessary. This is why the bishops piss me off so much. They had a responsibility to their flock, and the reason this went on for so long is because rather then do what needed to be done - they let it slide.

.

I take issue with thought that systemic problems are ever truly and totally fixed. (They may be addressed but that is different than being fixed) The point is the issues are not a simply a task list where in one claims victory (No mission accomplished moment here) and the task is completed. They are instead a long term commitment.

[Ben Kenobi]

You're saying that you want some hypothetical ecclesiastical justice system

No, I'm saying that the existing ecclesiastical justice system would be more effective than the existing criminal justice system. The existing criminal justice system is showing zero desire to prosecute anyone associated with the scandal. Ergo - rather than having them out in the public, and free men, they can be kept under house arrest for the rest of their lives. We had this discussion before - someone sentenced for child abuse gets an average term of about 2 years in the criminal 'justice' system. Is that good enough for you?

Hey, if I find an example of a Muslim apparently escaping justice then would this justify the adoption of Sharia law? Or do only Catholics get special treatment by the criminal justice system?

Right, because Catholics!=Priests. Where did I say that Catholics should be exempt from criminal prosecution? I'm referring to priests.