My trousers don't fit me any more...

[giblets]

Why is height correlated with intelligence, KH? Is it possible that socially-conferred advantages with regards to height increased reproductive success with other advantaged people (the intelligent)?

The one article I posted cited numerous studies of primitive societies in which height predicated social success. This has apparently been going on since the origin of our species.

Controlling for intelligence could under-represent the benefits of height.

Better childhood nutrition contributes to greater height and intelligence. Brain size does correlate with IQ. However, on the individual level I don't think being a tall person means a lot. Also, remember that men are significantly taller than women yet manage to not display significantly more intelligence.

[Jon Miller]

I think the nutrition thing is a good hypothesis.

JM

[KrazyHorse]

Pre- and peri-natal health in general may have a lot to do with it. In general adult IQ is seen as relatively immutable beyond the first couple of years of life, so albie's suggestion is demonstrably false. To add another hypothesis, it may be that genetics which code for a "resource-rich" development strategy impact both height and neurological development. With abundant food and few health challenges, this strategy will succeed at producing taller, smarter people.

[KrazyHorse]

The disadvantage to being brought up poor, with poor parenting, is much greater than height.

JM

Height is a weak predictor of economic outcomes. Intelligence is a much stronger predictor, explaining on its own something like 50% of variability. albie is probably about a standard deviation above average intelligence. His failure stems from his inability to change course when demonstrated to be doing the wrong thing, and slightly too much aggression for his own good.

[Jon Miller]

The refusal to change course might be related to his childhood home life though? I have seen it in other people who had a instable childhood.

JM

[Hauldren Collider]

Jon, do you really think we should just allow people to blame their failings on their upbringing? Something may not be your fault, but that doesn't mean you don't have to take responsibility for your flaws.

[MRT144]

Pre- and peri-natal health in general may have a lot to do with it. In general adult IQ is seen as relatively immutable beyond the first couple of years of life, so albie's suggestion is demonstrably false. To add another hypothesis, it may be that genetics which code for a "resource-rich" development strategy impact both height and neurological development. With abundant food and few health challenges, this strategy will succeed at producing taller, smarter people.

And then there is Sir Isaac Newton.

[KrazyHorse]

Jon: It may well be. However, attitude and behavior are far easier to change than basic capabilities. I don't care why albie behaves the way he does; I simply know there is scope for improvement.

[MRT144]

Jon, do you really think we should just allow people to blame their failings on their upbringing? Something may not be your fault, but that doesn't mean you don't have to take responsibility for your flaws.

To a degree, yes, we should allow some leeway when it comes to outcomes. I'm not saying murder or rape, I'm thinking more along the lines of not looking down on people who use EBT cards.

[KrazyHorse]

This is why I think the concept of justice or fairness has no place in intelligent conversation. What is the point of judging how much somebody deserves their lot in life? Is that an actionable concept? What is more important is seeing what can be changed and what can't.

[giblets]

Height is a weak predictor of economic outcomes. Intelligence is a much stronger predictor, explaining on its own something like 50% of variability.

Interesting, how do you know this?

[MRT144]

This is why I think the concept of justice or fairness has no place in intelligent conversation. What is the point of judging how much somebody deserves their lot in life? Is that an actionable concept? What is more important is seeing what can be changed and what can't.

Well said - politics absolutely is the antithesis of intelligent conversation.

[Hauldren Collider]

To a degree, yes, we should allow some leeway when it comes to outcomes. I'm not saying murder or rape, I'm thinking more along the lines of not looking down on people who use EBT cards.

I don't look down on people because they are poor. My contempt for alby stems from the fact that he has been given loads of opportunities to succeed and has thrown them away for a ridiculous fantasy.

[MRT144]

I don't look down on people because they are poor. My contempt for alby stems from the fact that he has been given loads of opportunities to succeed and has thrown them away for a ridiculous fantasy.

Well yeah. And for the most part we aren't inventing missed opportunities. I still can't believe he got ****-canned for swearing at Wells Fargo.

[KrazyHorse]

He got fired? FYI, I swear constantly at work.