Seriously, GOP? Really?

[Wezil]

We already determined that a person's beliefs/etc shape how they act, what decisions they will make, and so on.

No, we haven't.

Example please.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Just to pivot off what Jon had said, one can see in President George W. Bush's view on immigration reform that it was strongly influenced by his faith and the view that we must love our neighbor (now this didn't apply to other spheres necessarily, but I digress). Not every Christian comes to the same conclusion on the issue, but for him that, to a lot of people, surprising viewpoint was deeply embedded in his views on faith.

[giblets]

Sure, it couldn't have been that Bush saw a need to make the Republican party more appealing to Hispanics.

[Wezil]

So you can't predict where their faith will lead their policy?

Then why does it matter?

[Imran Siddiqui]

I wonder if people think it is irrelevant if someone identifies themself as Marxist considering that both Lenin and Noam Chomsky adopt(ed) the title.

[Wezil]

Christians can't reach consensus on the heavy moral issues (DP, abortion) much less the lighter ones.

[Jon Miller]

No, we haven't.

Example please.

Any ****ing person ever.

It is obvious, unless you make decisions by rolling the dice.

JM

[Wezil]

Example Jon.....

If it is so ****ing obvious why can't you provide one? Just one.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Sure, it couldn't have been that Bush saw a need to make the Republican party more appealing to Hispanics.

It's like you never lived through the Bush Administration. The focus on wedge issues in order to rally Conservatives was a Karl Rove speciality and they really didn't care about long term party brand loyalty. Bush's views on immigration were depised among the party.

[Jon Miller]

Christians can't reach consensus on the heavy moral issues (DP, abortion) much less the lighter ones.

That does not mean that Christianity does not play a major role in a person's actions/positions/etc.

It just means that Christianity is a lot deeper, more fundamental, and complex then 'is it OK for the state to put someone to death'.

Just because something is not simple does not mean that it isn't real or that it isn't important.

JM

[Jon Miller]

Example Jon.....

If it is so ****ing obvious why can't you provide one? Just one.

Well, every position I have ever held/said/etc.

Every position that Imran has ever held/etc.

If you aren't only a troll (which I could be wrong about), every single position you have ever held/etc.

JM

[Wezil]

That does not mean that Christianity does not play a major role in a person's actions/positions/etc.

It just means that Christianity is a lot deeper, more fundamental, and complex then 'is it OK for the state to put someone to death'.

Just because something is not simple does not mean that it isn't real or that it isn't important.

JM

But it does mean we can't tell where they will go with public policy.

The only shared belief I can think of is the belief in imaginary beings, which doesn't really help us much.

[Jon Miller]

I am glad you do not do analysis, because you seem to be lacking in critical ability.

To clarify, for relatively simple physics questions (or even Newtonian physics in relatively simple constructed models), the parameters that have the most impact when considered in a multivariate approach might have no observable impact at all by themselves.

To suggest that in humans (much more complicated), a parameter which does not by itself predict all behavior is thus unimportant is ridiculous.

Even the suggestion that the combination of beliefs/experiences/etc don't play a pivotal role in future decisions defies belief and is refuted by every single book/study/discussion ever.

JM

[Imran Siddiqui]

So are you really saying that President Obama's evolution on homosexual marriage wasn't in someways predicted by his being an archetypical Mainline Protestant & kind of matches the relative speed that Mainline congregations have embraced homosexuality? It provides for far more evidence of his movement on the issue that his simply being a moderate Dem (of which massive majorities are for marriage equality).

[regexcellent]

Most mainline protestants I know are against gay marriage. In fact most people I know are against it and I think New York would never have had it if it were a referendum.