Seriously, GOP? Really?

[Wezil]

I am glad you do not do analysis, because you seem to be lacking in critical ability.

JM

Don't blame me for your bad argument.

Premise - It is good to know a politicians religious beliefs so you will know where they are coming from (policy wise).

Scenario - I meet a politician I have never met before and the first thing I learn is that he/she is a Christian. What can I presume from this? Will they be anti-abortion? Not necessarily. Anti-DP? Not necessarily. Pro-immigration? Nope. Lower taxes? Higher taxes?

It tells us nothing Jon. A point you still haven't answered.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Most mainline protestants I know are against gay marriage. In fact most people I know are against it and I think New York would never have had it if it were a referendum.

The largest US Lutheran group, US Episcopal group, and, IIRC, US Presbyterian group of churches are allowing open homosexuals who are in a long term committed relationship to be pastors. The view on homosexuals in mainline churches is moving forward.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Premise - It is good to know a politicians religious beliefs so you will know where they are coming from (policy wise).

Scenario - I meet a politician I have never met before and the first thing I learn is that he/she is a Christian. What can I presume from this? Will they be anti-abortion? Not necessarily. Anti-DP? Not necessarily. Pro-immigration? Nope. Lower taxes? Higher taxes?

Simply knowing him to be "a Christian" isn't knowing his religious beliefs. Which kind of Christian is he? Is he a Mainline Protestant, Evangelical Protestant, Liberal Catholic, Conservative Catholic, Eastern Orthodox? And then you distill it down from there.

[regexcellent]

The largest US Lutheran group, US Episcopal group, and, IIRC, US Presbyterian group of churches are allowing open homosexuals who are in a long term committed relationship to be pastors. The view on homosexuals in mainline churches is moving forward.

"Forward" isn't the way I'd put it. "Moving," maybe. The leadership of these churches is also kind of irrelevant. What I mean is that the actual believers don't like it. The Presbyterian Church has been anti-Israel for a while but the actual Presbyterian followers aren't, just as an example.

If New York had held a referendum on gay marriage it would have failed. The only reason gay marriage exists anywhere in this country, even Massachusetts, is because for democrats it's a vote-winner since there is a very vocal minority that supports it. But the majority is against it just about everywhere.

[Jon Miller]

Simply knowing him to be "a Christian" isn't knowing his religious beliefs. Which kind of Christian is he? Is he a Mainline Protestant, Evangelical Protestant, Liberal Catholic, Conservative Catholic, Eastern Orthodox? And then you distill it down from there.

And what are his other beliefs/experiences?

I don't see how you can think you can predict a complicated human by knowing a couple of things about him. Not usefully.

The only questions that will give the predictive power with no other information that you seem to desire would be to ask 'do you believe life begins at conception' or other such surface beliefs.

The predictive power of your method would be weak.

JM

[kentonio]

Simply knowing him to be "a Christian" isn't knowing his religious beliefs. Which kind of Christian is he? Is he a Mainline Protestant, Evangelical Protestant, Liberal Catholic, Conservative Catholic, Eastern Orthodox? And then you distill it down from there.

Why bother? You'd have to distill down another step or two, and learn what? That the guy is anti-abortion because he's a second day lutherian from the sacred hall of christ the redeemer? I'm still not understanding why we're supposed to care. Either his positions agree with ours or they don't. I can maybe see a slight point at the Presidential level where you probably do want to try and guess whether your candidate is going to start wars etc, but as covered above it doesn't seem to actually help predict anything anyway, it just allows people to make tenuous connections after the fact.

[kentonio]

"Forward" isn't the way I'd put it. "Moving," maybe. The leadership of these churches is also kind of irrelevant. What I mean is that the actual believers don't like it. The Presbyterian Church has been anti-Israel for a while but the actual Presbyterian followers aren't, just as an example.

If New York had held a referendum on gay marriage it would have failed. The only reason gay marriage exists anywhere in this country, even Massachusetts, is because for democrats it's a vote-winner since there is a very vocal minority that supports it. But the majority is against it just about everywhere.

Which is why Gallup last year showed a majority of Americans in favour of gay marraige for the first time..

http://www.gallup.com/poll/147662/fi...-marriage.aspx

[Imran Siddiqui]

The leadership of these churches is also kind of irrelevant. What I mean is that the actual believers don't like it.

Which is funny because the actual believers at the ELCA's 2009 National Conference voted for it.

And look at a poll recently, would you?

[Lorizael]

If New York had held a referendum on gay marriage it would have failed. The only reason gay marriage exists anywhere in this country, even Massachusetts, is because for democrats it's a vote-winner since there is a very vocal minority that supports it. But the majority is against it just about everywhere.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Same-sex_marriage_in_Massachusetts#Public_opinion

A June 2011 Public Policy Polling survey found that 59% of Massachusetts voters thought same-sex marriage should be legal, while only 33% thought it should be illegal and 8% were not sure.[22]

A September 2011 Public Policy Polling survey found that 60% of Massachusetts voters thought same-sex marriage should be legal, while 30% thought it should be illegal and 10% were not sure. A separate question on the same survey found that 86% of respondents supported legal recognition of same-sex couples, with 56% supporting same-sex marriage, 30% supporting civil unions, 12% opposing all legal recognition and 2% not sure.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Same-sex_marriage_in_New_York#Polling_on_same-sex_marriage

An April 2009 Siena poll of likely New York voters indicated that 53% of voters supported same-sex marriage and 39% opposed it.[65] The April poll showed that registered Democrats supported same-sex marriage by a 59% to 35% margin, while registered Republicans opposed it by virtually the same margin, 59% to 31%. A SurveyUSA poll from the same time period showed 49% of New Yorkers supporting Same-Sex marriage with 44% opposed.[66] However, a May 26 Siena poll indicated an even, 46%–46% split on the issue.[67]

According to a Quinnipiac University poll released on May 14, 2009, New York voters were evenly split—46% to 46%—on same-sex marriage.[68] The May 14 poll showed that same-sex marriage was opposed by majorities of African-Americans (57%–35%), Republicans (68%–24%), white Catholics (53%–39%), and white Protestants (55%–38%).[68] However, a Quinnipiac poll dated June 23, 2009 showed that New York State voters support same-sex marriage 51-41 percent, with eight percent undecided.[69][70] According to the June 23 poll, the proposal wins 52 – 42 percent support from white voters and 55 – 39 percent from Hispanics. African-American voters polled 43 percent in favor and 42 percent opposed.

In 2010, The New York Times estimated support for same-sex marriage in New York at 58 percent, based on projections from 2008 and a nationwide CNN poll in August 2010.[71]

An April 2011 Siena College survey found that 58% of New York voters supported the legalization of same-sex marriage, while 36% were opposed and 6% did not know or had no opinion.[72]

Following the passage of the Marriage Equality Act, a Marist Poll reported that 55% of New York adults supported the legalization of same-sex marriage and 63% did not want the law overturned.

[MrFun]

Which is why Gallup last year showed a majority of Americans in favour of gay marraige for the first time..

http://www.gallup.com/poll/147662/fi...-marriage.aspx

Just because the majority of Americans favor gay marriage, does not mean that the majority of Americans favor gay marriage. I think that's what reg is trying to say.

[Dr Strangelove]

Yeah, but the referendum would have failed because the votes of people who favor gay marriage are irrelevant.

[MrFun]

When in our history exactly, did more Republican politicians lose their sanity?

[giblets]

Ron Paul is hardly representative of the Republican party.

[MrFun]

When did Ron Paul go from being an independent to a Republican anyway?

[Hauldren Collider]

First of all, he was a Republican before he was a Libertarian for a single presidential election cycle, then he went back to being a Republican. Second, about 30 years ago, give or take.