Greatest Sect of Christianity

[Jon Miller]

There's a lot of "mostly" in that post. Did ANYONE have the Bible, as we know it today--even out of order, or with different manuscripts--in 250 AD? No. The Church predates the New Testament by a significant margin.

Some people might have 3rd Corinthians, others might not have John 3.

It is true that the church predates the new testament by a significant margin, but to portray it as a chaotic mess where no one knew what to hold as relevant is completely false.

The 4 gospels we have today were considered the primary ones, the letters we have from Paul (and Peter 2) were considered the primary apostolic letters.

JM

[Elok]

Either way, it's still a human creation.

EDIT: I will allow that my example was extreme, and no, I am not a biblical scholar. But my central point remains: what we consider "scripture" was selected by human beings, at one point or another, from a much wider corpus of work.

[Imran Siddiqui]

No, it's revealed by God by whatever means He chooses to employ. The first several centuries of Christians didn't even have the Bible; they might have scriptures, but these would vary from church to church and often contained deuterocanonical or even heretical works. A single church in Egypt or Macedonia might have Matthew, John, the letters of St. Ignatius and a whole heap of gnostic rubbish like the "Gospel of Judas." The bible as we know it was formed by a long, gradual process of consensus among the church hierarchy--or, if you prefer, among the experts. The bible itself is, in a sense, a human tradition, or at least the product of human tradition.

Oooh, well done. I almost forgot about that, but yes, the books of Bible were decided by experts discussing it amongst themselves. And then Martin Luther (another expert) decided to trim it further. Or do you, Kid, read the Books of Maccabees as well because you don't want experts like Luther deciding things for you?

[Barnabas]

Luther removed the Book of Maccabees from the Bible because he did not like stuff which appears in that book such as prayers for the death, and Saints being aware of events on earth and answering prayers.

[Kidlicious]

I'll need to clear it up after work. But if you think the early church (writers of the NT) believed the Bible to be false (idol) you're plain stupid. The idea originated with liberals after the scientific revolution.

[loinburger]

I'll need to clear it up after work. But if you think the early church (writers of the NT) believed the Bible to be false (idol) you're plain stupid. The idea originated with liberals after the scientific revolution.

You mean the people who wrote the Bible thought that the Bible was true? Imagine that.

[Sava]

Either way, it's still a human creation.

Humans don't create anything. We can only move around matter that already exists into different patterns... seeing shapes in the clouds, so to speak.

But even our ideas are still governed by the same rules and laws as all matter in the universe.

God, being all of creation... all matter and energy... just exists. We are a part of God just the same. But no single person is all of creation. Our ideas are a small fraction of matter and energy that exists.

This is why God cannot be considered good or evil. Saying so would be comparable to saying a single molecule of copper in a circuit board comprises the entirety of the entity "a computer".

Debates about religion are semantic games. Even intelligent people find it difficult to avoid playing them.

Imagine the singularity of the Big Bang... everything into an infinitesimally small point. A continuous cycle of universes, expanding mass and energy, dissipating into mass-less particles, would not experience time or space. Our existence is a matter of perspective and relativity... relative to the matter and energy around us at this point. But that is irrelevant for everything but us.

The singularity does not change (expand, explode, inflate, etc) relative to itself. It just exists... perhaps without another perspective. So it also does not exist. It only exists in its own mind... which is an illusion to itself.

We cannot understand anything outside the bounds of our biological experience. The words attempt to communicate ideas, but are a poor interpretation, as so much avoids our senses. The brain fills in gaps using previously understood patterns. And that is what everything becomes... a product of our imagination.

[Felch]

LOL you really have absolutely no idea about prophets.

Moses wasn't an expert?

[Sava]

Moses wasn't an expert?

How long ago was Moses? 4,000 years?
I wouldn't call someone from thousands of years ago an expert on anything... except being a damned sh1tstained toothless bastard.

[Elok]

I'll need to clear it up after work. But if you think the early church (writers of the NT) believed the Bible to be false (idol) you're plain stupid. The idea originated with liberals after the scientific revolution.

"Idol" doesn't simply mean false. It means you are giving a created thing the reverence which is due to God alone.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Exactly. If you are going to use terms, Kid - use them correctly.

The early church didn't worship the Bible as some evangelicals do today.

[Jon Miller]

No, not at all.

What I was referring to was that it wasn't a complete chaotic mess...

JM

[Imran Siddiqui]

I'm not disagreeing with you.

[Elok]

"A final major source of this disconnect is the evangelical community’s understanding of the Bible. Most lay evangelicals understand the Bible as offering all they need to know on matters ranging from the origin of species to imminent destruction of the Earth. This notion makes experts unnecessary to form valid beliefs. But it is also untenable; what communities think is the 'clear teaching of the Bible' varies throughout time and among cultures in a manner that can be directly traced to different starting beliefs. How lay evangelicals interpret the Bible, ultimately, reflects how those they take as authority figures interpret it."

http://www.scienceandreligiontoday.com/2011/11/01/why-evangelicals-believe-weird-things/

[Kidlicious]

Except you're the one interpreting differently from the early church.