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**Imran Siddiqui** · November 2, 2011, 00:11

Originally posted by Elok View Post

As Imran just said, Christ was God's Word. The Bible is simply a record, of secondary importance to the incarnate Word Himself. As a human creation, it is necessarily open to error.

What he said. Unless you don't believe in original sin. If you do, then humans writing down a record of revelation will naturally not be perfect. In addition, you are attempting to turn God's perfect revelation into flawed languages of Koine Greek and ancient Hebrew. Then translate them into the imperfect & flawed language of English (among others). How exactly is it expected to remain "perfect" after all of that?

**Imran Siddiqui** · November 2, 2011, 00:14

Originally posted by Elok View Post

would have struck most Christians throughout history as baffling and possibly mildly idolatrous.

There is a reason that Kid's POV is referred to (informally) as Bibliolatry.

**Imran Siddiqui** · November 2, 2011, 00:17

Originally posted by Elok View Post

Guess who likes tradition? Catholics!

It is amazing how Al has suddenly decided that Ben, a devout Catholic, and Kid, a inerrant Bible Protestant, believe the exact same thing.

Furthermore, when you deliberately put yourself on the SAME side of the argument as Ben and Kid, you should just give up right there.

**Dinner** · November 2, 2011, 02:49

Al is ignorant. That shouldn't surprise anyone.

**Kidlicious** · November 2, 2011, 06:50

Originally posted by Elok View Post

Because it is, in fact, NOT God's Word. Christ is the eternal Logos, the Way, the Truth, and the Life. The Bible is simply a record--a valuable record, and very important, but still a record, composed and written by very holy but still fallible men, each with their own points of view, prejudices, and failings. Your attitude towards it is a historical novelty, and would have struck most Christians throughout history as baffling and possibly mildly idolatrous.

Now you simply don't know what you're talking about. This was said by a pre nicean church father "The Holy Scripture is the foundation and lively spring, containing in all sufficiency and abundance the pure Water of Life." ONE OF YOUR EXPERTS SAID THAT.

OK Elok, assume it's not God's word. Then are you saying that God's truth is revealed by expert's?

**Kidlicious** · November 2, 2011, 07:01

Originally posted by Elok View Post

It's not "an expert," it's thousands and thousands of experts, and the accumulated wisdom of their lifetimes, all piled together in one Tradition which informs our understanding. If one person, alone, tries to do a difficult problem, he'll likely get it wrong. If he compares it to the calculations of several hundred other people who have done it before, he can still be wrong, but the likelihood of error is reduced. This applies to all fields of human knowledge and endeavor.

Thousands of experts who believe in tradition NOT reason. Tradition is not the accumulation of reason. It's oppossed to reason. It tells you not to think.

And if you're talking about other fields THEY DON'T BELIEVE IN TRADITION.

**Kidlicious** · November 2, 2011, 07:08

Originally posted by Felch View Post

Where does it say that?

How can I even talk to a Catholic about what the Bible says. At least Ben used to be a Protestant. There's a reason why the church doesn't want you to read the Bible. So they can lie to you. Read you're Bible, especially the Gospel and you will answer your own question.

**Kidlicious** · November 2, 2011, 07:13

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui View Post

What he said. Unless you don't believe in original sin. If you do, then humans writing down a record of revelation will naturally not be perfect. In addition, you are attempting to turn God's perfect revelation intongj flawed languages of Koine Greek and ancient Hebrew. Then translate them into the imperfect & flawed language of English (among others). How exactly is it expected to remain "perfect" after all of that?

It's perfect because it's God's word. It's not your word or it would be all wrong. But it's the perfect one's perfection.

But why would a perfect God need school boys to teach his elect what His word is and correct His errors.

Why does God need His errors corrected at all you idiot.

**Kidlicious** · November 2, 2011, 07:21

Also when did Christians start talking about the Bible being in error. My gut feeling tells me it's not very traditional. I call bull****.

**Jon Miller** · November 2, 2011, 08:00

There is a big difference between saying 'the Bible is wrong, in verses A, B, C, etc' and 'the Bible was written by humans, talking in human terms, and this must be used when trying to understand the insight that is there for us to gain'.

I disagree with the first choice, and have engaged in arguments with people (including professors) who were proponents of it. The second case I think is definitely true, and those who think that the Bible was word for word dictated by God show a lack of understanding (including of translation!).

People who propose radical interpretations based on A, B, C being wrong citing things like translation errors/etc are being foolish since when some new older edition of the Bible is found, it is the same basically (same with the translation done for the KJV and the modern translations).

It is true a few things change, but nothing of real theological import. You don't see many people arguing about serious theological matters where the difference is which serious theological translation they are using (it is the case with some paraphrases, which can be nice, but then you must remember that you are getting much more of the paraphrasers interpretation than you would be getting from a straight translation).

JM

**Kidlicious** · November 2, 2011, 08:00

The idea that the Bible has errors originated during the scientific revolution. Oh yeah that's some tradition there LOL. Now consider the tradition of believing the Bible is THE WORD OF GOD ERROR FREE. And most people still believe that but this website is full of hacks.

**Jon Miller** · November 2, 2011, 08:03

I think that the Bible is theologically error free.

This has nothing to do with whether the Bible was written by fallen humans for fallen humans.

Or do you read 'David saw that Bathsheba was beautiful and called for her to come to him and lay with her' to mean that we should be committing adultery?

If you want an instruction manual, read the Koran (I think).

The Bible is much more than that and can communicate much more.

JM

**Kidlicious** · November 2, 2011, 08:46

JM,

I don't understand your point, but I‘d be willing to bet that we don't actually disagree. For example, the Bible doesn't directly say "God doesn't communicate through experts." But you should get that from Scriptures as well as experience and reason.

**loinburger** · November 2, 2011, 09:09