Greatest Sect of Christianity

[Elok]

I think you could stand to calm down, Kid.

[Kidlicious]

...the early father you quoted did NOT support your position. He said something sort of like your position, but not really. He certainly didn't say scripture was infallible. Also, you didn't identify who you were quoting.

What the quote says is Scripture is the source of Life (capital L) Thats a clear contradiction to what you believe. The author goes on to say that it contains WHATEVER IS NECESSARY TO MAKE GOD'S PEOPLE WISE UNTO SALVATION. Clearly he doesn't believe in experts, at least when it comes to God's tfuth. And it doesn't matter in the least who it was except that it was an early church father.

[Elok]

Yes the Word is Scripture. The Scripture is eternal. It existed in the beginning in it's complete form. That is exactly what the verse says.

Okay, you've just said that the Bible is God. That's profoundly blasphemous, but okay, let's get into the implications of this. John goes on to refer to the word as "He," and says that all things were made through "Him." So, you were made by, or by means of, the Bible, I take it. Then we get to John 1:14:

The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth

Do you still say "The Word" is the Bible? I.e., that the Bible is the only Son of God (not Jesus), and became incarnate? Or are the Bible and Jesus somehow the same thing?

[Kidlicious]

I think you could stand to calm down, Kid.

Indeed. I'm not a conservative christian. I'm not a liberal or a centrist (moderate). I just don't understand why christians are any of those things. It really doesn't seem that hard.

[Elok]

What the quote says is Scripture is the source of Life (capital L) Thats a clear contradiction to what you believe.

No, it isn't. A thing can do good things without being infallible, let alone equal to God.

The author goes on to say that it contains WHATEVER IS NECESSARY TO MAKE GOD'S PEOPLE WISE UNTO SALVATION.

Again, this does not refute me in any way. He does not say it is inerrant, nor imply it.

Clearly he doesn't believe in experts, at least when it comes to God's tfuth. And it doesn't matter in the least who it was except that it was an early church father.

Well, it'd be nice to know. Especially if it turned out you were quoting Origen, or Augustine, or somebody else the Orthodox have mixed feelings about.

[Kidlicious]

Okay, you've just said that the Bible is God. That's profoundly blasphemous, but okay, let's get into the implications of this. John goes on to refer to the word as "He," and says that all things were made through "Him." So, you were made by, or by means of, the Bible, I take it. Then we get to John 1:14:



Do you still say "The Word" is the Bible? I.e., that the Bible is the only Son of God (not Jesus), and became incarnate? Or are the Bible and Jesus somehow the same thing?

Yes of course. The Word is the Bible is Jesus. That's what the verse says. It's the same thing with the Way. Jesus is the Way. How do you interpret that?

[Kidlicious]

No, it isn't. A thing can do good things without being infallible, let alone equal to God.



Again, this does not refute me in any way. He does not say it is inerrant, nor imply it.



Well, it'd be nice to know. Especially if it turned out you were quoting Origen, or Augustine, or somebody else the Orthodox have mixed feelings about.

I'm not arguing that the early father was saying that scripture is innerrant. I don't think it was an issue then. If you didn't believe in scripture you simply weren't in the church. Now I realize that people disagreed about what scripture should be, but that's something different. The point is that they did in fact believe that God's word is error free.

The author is unknown. It inspired John Wesley and in part forms the bases of his theology. What is known is that it's pre-Nicean Council. Wesley was not big on Augustine either, btw.

[Elok]

Yes of course. The Word is the Bible is Jesus. That's what the verse says.

No, it doesn't. John 1 refers entirely to attributes of Christ Himself, with no reference to scripture unless you choose to interpret "The Word" that way. Which would be an incorrect interpretation; "the Word" refers to Christ's place in the early Christian conceptual model of the Trinity, IIR/UC. What you're saying is astonishingly blasphemous and has me scratching my head.

It's the same thing with the Way. Jesus is the Way. How do you interpret that?

Easy. Jesus is the means by which eternal life is attained.

[Elok]

I'm not arguing that the early father was saying that scripture is innerrant. I don't think it was an issue then. If you didn't believe in scripture you simply weren't in the church. Now I realize that people disagreed about what scripture should be, but that's something different. The point is that they did in fact believe that God's word is error free.

So, you don't have anything to support your claim?

The author is unknown. It inspired John Wesley and in part forms the bases of his theology. What is known is that it's pre-Nicean Council. Wesley was not big on Augustine either, btw.

In that case, it's not a church father so much as something somebody said at a certain point in time. There's a big difference. A lot of people pre-Nicea also thought scripture said Jesus wasn't God. We don't call such people "church fathers."

[Kidlicious]

Well I have to admit I just googled it, and you should do the same. Google sola scriptura and early church. Church fathers to research are Irenaeus and Tertullian to name a couple.

First there was the oral tradition and the church believed as I do that God's truth was revealed by the apostles. The oral tradition ended when the Scripture was cannonized. After that anyone who believed that truth was revealed by oral tradition was considered a heretic. For example the gnostics still believed in oral tradition instead of sola scriptura. It stayed that way until the council of Trent when the Catholic church went against its own tradition and declared that the oral tradition had never ended. That was in the 16th century.

It may be hard for you to believe but its true. In John 1:1 The Bible is the Word is Christ.

[loinburger]

Has google been added to the list of infallible sources?

[Kidlicious]

Has google been added to the list of infallible sources?

No, but it's better than, "I don't think he means Scripture when he talks about the Word."

[Elok]

It's not "I don't think so," it's "the text says nothing to indicate so." As for Googling, I'm sorry, but I am NOT doing your research for you. What did Tertullian or Irenaeus say to indicate support for sola scriptura, or for that reading of John 1:1?

[Imran Siddiqui]

I want you to have some dignity and integrity. For example stop posting bull**** and slander. I'm not a conservative evangelical. You know that.

Yes you are. You believe in a Conservative interpretation of Scripture and go to a Baptist Church. QED.

It is amusing that you want someone else to have dignity and integrity when the plank in your eye is so large.

[Kidlicious]

It's not "I don't think so," it's "the text says nothing to indicate so." As for Googling, I'm sorry, but I am NOT doing your research for you. What did Tertullian or Irenaeus say to indicate support for sola scriptura, or for that reading of John 1:1?

I'm not going to type all night on a phone so that you can just say things like "he doesn't mean the Bible when he uses the Word. You either care about the truth or you don't.