Canadian Hate Laws on Trial

[Ben Kenobi]

$17.5K isn't massive. It's sufficiently large to discourage *******s like him from spreading hateful propaganda. It's served its role admirably.

So apparently, Asher is in favor of punishing people that disagree with him. Well said. Mussolini would be proud.

Fines are often used to protect the best interest of society. For example, speeding...

So banning speech that you find offensive is in the best interest of society? I disagree. I think that if the speech is offensive to you, that we should be paying for it like we do with the National Arts Council.

[Elok]

Just wondering, when was the last time you ventured inside an American library?

When was the last time ANYONE ventured inside an American library, except to use the internet or the bathroom?

[Ben Kenobi]

Mr. Whatcott printed & distributed materials pointing out that all homosexuals are pedophiles who actively want to convert children and that they should be gotten rid of.

False. Mr. Whatcott distributes materials that say that homosexuals make up a disproportionate number of pedophiles, (true), and that they should be arrested for recruiting, (which they should).

If you are going to tell lies about someone you hate, at least get what he said correct.

The question is whether the specifics are illegal - HRC and one court said 'yes', one court said 'no', and nowe its up to the Supreme Court.

I don't see why truthful statements should be illegal.

You are also not allowed to tattoo 卐 on your school aged shildren.

I would think that would be child abuse, but then what do I know? What does that have to do with Mr. Whatcott?

[kentonio]

I seem to remember a group of people exercising their 'free speech' towards a certain Dr Tiller, and then when one of their number murdered him in cold blood suddenly all the hate speech was never intended to incite violence. It's ridiculous. The reason laws like the Canadian one are essential is because people are generally stupid and easily manipulatable. People who incite violence and hatred shouldn't just get to walk away scot free afterwards going 'not my fault'.

[Ben Kenobi]

Again, you either don't know what is going on or you're being disingenuous.

Oh, I hardly doubt that you'd be attacking the man, except for the fact that he opposes homosexuality. Let's get that straight. You are perfectly happy with expressing offensive thoughts, but you certainly can't take what you dish out.

He was fined for this behaviour. You act as if he was imprisoned and charged as a criminal for this. He wasn't. AFAIK he wasn't even ever charged for this under the criminal code, he only faced the tribunal.

He should never have been charged in the first place. PETA and Greenpeace do similar displays, yet are not charged. They also distributed mailings, etc. I cannot see why Whatcott would be punished but PETA and Greenpeace would be permitted to do the exact same things.

He's only been arrested & jailed for his anti-abortion nonsense by violating the mandated perimeter around the clinics

So what you are saying is that he was arrested and jailed for expressing himself in a disapproved manner? Why aren't people allowed to picket clinics? You can picket any other business.

-- and that has happened in both the US and Canada for him, with the same laws applied.

I don't see why someone who is peacefully picketing a starbucks should be treated any differently than someone picketing a clinic. Why do we have laws protecting one but not the other?

[kentonio]

If you look at the ratios, of the average heterosexual man and the average homosexual man, the homosexual man is far more likely to be a pedophile. The rates are even in the same ballpark. Your statement would only be true if, and only if, there were as many homosexual as heterosexual men.

Once again you talk complete ****, you lying homophobic ****.

http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/rainbow/HTML/facts_molestation.html

[Elok]

So if someone who had read his publication curb stomps a homosexual, he is not responsible for it. But he still get slapped with a massive fine?

QFT; if the whole rationale is "think of the chil--er, impressionable people in general, who may be grown adults but we still have to shield their eyes," then you are in essence saying he's responsible for others' actions. Except it's even sillier than that, because the actions feared may or may not materialize, and if they do materialize there may or may not be any verifiable connection.

[kentonio]

QFT; if the whole rationale is "think of the chil--er, impressionable people in general, who may be grown adults but we still have to shield their eyes," then you are in essence saying he's responsible for others' actions. Except it's even sillier than that, because the actions feared may or may not materialize, and if they do materialize there may or may not be any verifiable connection.

Milgram experiment.

[giblets]

When was the last time ANYONE ventured inside an American library, except to use the internet or the bathroom?

I'm pretty sure you can check out movies and music.

[Ben Kenobi]

I seem to remember a group of people exercising their 'free speech' towards a certain Dr Tiller,

Group of people? Was Mr. Whatcott among them?

and then when one of their number murdered him in cold blood suddenly all the hate speech was never intended to incite violence.

I don't see how you can label everyone who pickets at an abortion clinic as 'hate speech' and that they are attempting to 'incite violence'. The fact of the matter is that if you picket a clinic, you are far more likely to suffer violence then to deliver it.

People who incite violence and hatred shouldn't just get to walk away scot free afterwards going 'not my fault'.

And what does that have to do with Whatcott? He's never done anything other than peaceful protests. There is a difference between peaceful protest and between inciting violence.

[Elok]

Milgram experiment.

I was not aware Mr. Whatcott recruited a whole bunch of people and tricked them into thinking they were electrocuting wicked homosexuals straight to Hell. Somebody really should tell me these things.

EDIT: Just to be clear, the Milgram experiment demonstrated that a distressingly large percentage of the population will deliberately act against their consciences, to the point of endangering a man's life, if an authority figure tells them to and assures them that he will take responsibility. This is totally irrelevant. Whatcott is not an authority figure in anything like the same sense, he has not given any clear order, nor offered to take responsibility. In any case, I see your Milgram and raise you a Nuremberg; bumping responsibility up to a superior who gave the order doesn't fly.

[Elok]

I'm pretty sure you can check out movies and music.

But do they have that movie about Darwin's religious conflicts with his wife?

[Ben Kenobi]

Once again you talk complete ****, you lying homophobic ****.

http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/rainbo...lestation.html

Yeah, unfortunately for you, that article doesn't back up what you are saying. Gay men are far more likely to be pedophiles than heterosexual men. Far more likely. Something like 5:1.

Kentonio, if the ratio of gay men to heterosexual men is 10:1, why don't we see 10x as many girls molested as boys?

[kentonio]

I was not aware Mr. Whatcott recruited a whole bunch of people and tricked them into thinking they were electrocuting wicked homosexuals straight to Hell. Somebody really should tell me these things.

If people are in an emotionally vulnerable state they can be manipulated to commit quite horrific acts with frightening ease. Although Milgram had people in a test environment, the nazis had already proved that this is also perfectly valid in the field in a huge range of situations and conditions. If Whatcott's hate mongering lead to one vulnerable or unbalanced person being convinced that homosexuals were predatory paedolphiles and that the logical response was to kill them, then he is morally responsible for that death no matter how much he then whined about it never being his intention. That's why I mentioned Dr Tiller, the Operation Rescue people are responsible for his murder, and under US law they get to walk away scot free.

[kentonio]

http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/rainbo...lestation.html



Yeah, unfortunately for you, that article doesn't back up what you are saying. Gay men are far more likely to be pedophiles than heterosexual men. Far more likely. Something like 5:1.

Are you completely retarded? From the article I just linked...

Do Any Studies Claim To Show That Homosexuals Are More Likely To Molest Children?

One individual has claimed to have data that prove homosexuals to be child molesters at a higher rate than heterosexuals. That person is Paul Cameron. As detailed elsewhere on this site, Cameron's survey data are subject to so many methodological flaws as to be virtually meaningless. Even so, his assertions are sometimes quoted by antigay organizations in their attempts to link homosexuality with child sexual abuse.