Canadian Hate Laws on Trial

[Asher]

Canada is a far more successful society than America is. You would do well to look at what we're doing and consider adopting it, rather than trying to bring Canada down with you and your backwards society.

America is basically version 1 of modern democracy. There are plenty of flaws with it, ones that Americans are too proud to accept and too ignorant to address.

You need to upgrade.

[giblets]

I don't think insufficient censorship is one of America's problems. I don't see how freedom of expression is "backwards" either.

[Asher]

I don't see how freedom of expression is "backwards" either.

So you are completely against the laws that prohibit slander and libel and copyright infringement, then. At least you are consistent, right?

[Asher]

Most sane people agree there are limits to freedom of expression.

Most Americans agree that slander and libel are damaging.

What I will never understand is why Americans are too stupid to realize comments like what the Pastor in Red Deer say or what the guy in the OP said are also damaging. In many ways, these are far more damaging to society than someone saying Jennifer Lopez is a lesbian.

Saying gays are predatory pedophiles with an agenda to convert all children is legal in your country, while saying something false about a brainless celebrity is illegal. You do not see how this is backwards? Truly? Let's not resort back to the "FREEDOM OF SPEECH!!!!" issue because, as I keep saying, America agrees there's restrictions on them. So condemning other countries for placing restrictions on freedom of speech is retarded when your only argument is "freedom of speech!!!".

[giblets]

So you are completely against the laws that prohibit slander and libel and copyright infringement, then. At least you are consistent, right?

No, I am not completely against limitations on free speech. But there are plenty of backwards societies where people don't have the freedom to say whatever they like.

[Asher]

No, I am not completely against limitations on free speech. But there are plenty of backwards societies where people don't have the freedom to say whatever they like.

Yes, just like there are many irrelevant arguments on forums.

[giblets]

Society is often better off because someone said something controversial that offended a lot of people. Society would be much more backwards without the ability to oppose the majority opinion. Now I don't think this is the case for loons who think homosexuals are pedophiles, but I don't really want to set a precedent of shutting down the expression of an opinion that the majority doesn't like.

[Hauldren Collider]

Well, now Asher's just going to claim that such a thing could never occur because the government is far too smart for that. No slippery slope and whatnot.

Oh, the lengths of denial Asher will stretch to in order to preserve his peace of mind from censoring the anti-gays.

[Elok]

Society is often better off because someone said something controversial that offended a lot of people. Society would be much more backwards without the ability to oppose the majority opinion. Now I don't think this is the case for loons who think homosexuals are pedophiles, but I don't really want to set a precedent of shutting down the expression of an opinion that the majority doesn't like.

[Elok]

People aren't as rational as you think you are.

I don't think people are terribly rational. But I do think they're responsible for their own actions.

[Krill]

Isn't it hypocritical then when American diplomats walked out on one of Ahmadinejads' speeches claiming that Israel needs wiping off the map and Americans want to rape the Arab world, and that 9/11 ever actually happened? Shouldn't they continue to talk with him and just ignore all the **** he says?

[giblets]

Isn't it hypocritical then when American diplomats walked out on one of Ahmadinejads' speeches claiming that Israel needs wiping off the map and Americans want to rape the Arab world, and that 9/11 ever actually happened? Shouldn't they continue to talk with him and just ignore all the **** he says?

I agree, they shouldn't walk out on somebody else's speech.

[Asher]

Society is often better off because someone said something controversial that offended a lot of people.

Yeah, that's a great argument.

Society is often better off by preaching hate.

The law isn't against saying things controversial. The law is against incitement of hate.

If you think society may be better off by condoning people calling for Jews to be slaughtered, Muslims to be eradicated, or gays to be beaten then that's on you. Canada disagrees.

[Elok]

Isn't it hypocritical then when American diplomats walked out on one of Ahmadinejads' speeches claiming that Israel needs wiping off the map and Americans want to rape the Arab world, and that 9/11 ever actually happened? Shouldn't they continue to talk with him and just ignore all the **** he says?

...um, did we fine him, or call for sanctions against him? If not, this isn't really a useful parallel to draw.

[Asher]

Well, now Asher's just going to claim that such a thing could never occur because the government is far too smart for that. No slippery slope and whatnot.

Again, this has been law for decades. There is no slippery slope. In fact, the law has only become more refined and specific over time. Not the opposite.

There's a reason that the slippery slope argument is a fallacy, HC.

Oh, the lengths of denial Asher will stretch to in order to preserve his peace of mind from censoring the anti-gays.

I'm not the one in denial. Americans are too proud to recognize their own inconsistencies in censorship. America is the one that forbids certain words from being used on television. America is the one where everyone sues eachother for saying mean things about eachother.

You guys are just delusional. There's no possible ****ing argument against permitting people to incite hate against groups of people. None at all. Zero. Ever.

The slippery slope fallacy has proven itself to be a fallacy and completely untrue. And the argument that "sometimes controversial things help society" is completely and utterly retarded considering the law is specific to preaching hate. This isn't comparable to saying the world is round, it's comparable to making anti-Jew propaganda like what Nazi Germany saw be illegal.