Oslo bombed

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I guess it might be that the hold is taken up with imaging equipment etc?

[KrazyHorse]

See and I see quotes like this:



And it seems like bull****. Maybe wikipedia is wrong but that's where I got information on the Oslo PD's two helicopters, both of which have the capacity to carry at least 6 passengers each. Maybe wikipedia is wrong or out of date or something but it really seems like the police are lying.

I agree...

[KrazyHorse]

Unfortunately, yes.


Yes it is unreasonable. What would keep *******s like Anders from shooting at ambulances, doctors, nurses and Med-evac 'copters if they start posing a threat by carrying cops or perhaps soldiers?


Hospital helicopters are NOT part of their resources.

Again, you are a ****ing moron.

[Hauldren Collider]

I guess it might be that the hold is taken up with imaging equipment etc?

No, I think FLIR is generally mounted on the bottom of the helicopter.

[Al B. Sure!]

On flickr, I found this photo, dated 2009, of one of the Oslo PD helicopters:



That is the AS350B3 I mentioned earlier which has a 6 passenger capacity... as you can probably guess by the size of the helicopter. I'm sure it would be cramped but it's supposed to have space.

I can't confirm that that is the EXACT helicopter that the Oslo PD didn't want to use for this operation but from all accounts, the Oslo PD only have one helicopter of this model and I imagine that one from 2009 is the exact same helicopter.

[KrazyHorse]

Sorry. That was the impression I got from "oh, one cop should just jump out of the helicopter", which is a bit unorthodox.

My point is not about individual police officers. My point is about the entire command structure. They were overly conservative. I'm not worried about individual cops being too afraid to put themselves in harm's way, but of the police chief who's too afraid to order a mission that has some significant probability of failing. They waited until they could have overwhelming force to respond to the threat. There needs to be a purge of that type of thinking. By waiting, they had already failed.

[KrazyHorse]

I see places to land:



If the US military could conduct vertical envelopment into the Vietnamese jungles, I see no reason why that island would have been impenetrable, especially given the visible clearings.

As an aside, that island is freaking tiny.

Note the cabins in the largest clearing for scale. The clearings are at least 100*100 feet (closer to 200*200 feet, probably). Plenty of space for a chopper.

[Al B. Sure!]

The island is only 26 acres. Even if they landed on the opposite end of where the shooter is, you could run across the island in like two minutes.

[Hauldren Collider]

My point is not about individual police officers. My point is about the entire command structure. They were overly conservative. I'm not worried about individual cops being too afraid to put themselves in harm's way, but of the police chief who's too afraid to order a mission that has some significant probability of failing. They waited until they could have overwhelming force to respond to the threat. There needs to be a purge of that type of thinking. By waiting, they had already failed.

That's exactly what I meant, though. The police force is not organized for a risky mission.

[Asher]

Not sure what the point is with all the retrospective criticism. It's Norway, they never expected something like this, were not prepared for it, and didn't know how to properly respond. A lot of it can be explained away with inexperience and shock.

What happened happened.

[Al B. Sure!]

Well, it'll help them be ready in 21 years when he gets out.

[BlackCat]

See and I see quotes like this:



And it seems like bull****. Maybe wikipedia is wrong but that's where I got information on the Oslo PD's two helicopters, both of which have the capacity to carry at least 6 passengers each. Maybe wikipedia is wrong or out of date or something but it really seems like the police are lying.

I'm sure that your googlefu are good, so your are probably right about number of choppers and their capacity, but so what ? Do you expect them to sit idle just waiting to take off to Utoya or might they be deployed somewhere in Norway ? Maybe they were active in the activities due to the fact that Oslo centrum looked like a warzone ?

You probably know that Norway are a small country, heck, the pop is only some 5 mill - still, it's one of the larger countries in europe geographically and probably are the size of 5-6 american states. Even filled with lots of mountains.

[Cort Haus]

I wasn't talking about a giant monolithic elite, I was simply talking about biases, and also great disconnect between the working class, and lower middle classes on the one hand and the upper class and intellectuals of leftist parties on the other.

The irony is that one of the reasons why many among the upper classes are so proud of being PC is because it reliably differentiates those who grew up in the lower classes and lets them look down on them (rather unPC no?), its basically the same mechanism of feeling morally superior to the working class as the Victorian era knew, just the standards of morality have changed, and like with the old morality the upper classes are hypocrites since they can afford to live away from any dysfunction mass immigration and failed assimilation policies. Complaining about multiculturalism is a sign that you are too poor to escape its negatives.

While I don't agree with your positive attitude to ethnic purity, you are correct to recognise the disconnect between the elite and the masses, and also correct to identify the mechanism of moral superiority at play here (bolded above). This sense of superiority manifests itself in various ways, particularly in the contempt for democracy shown by the EU Elite that has been discussed here recently.

The problem with multiculturalism is not multi-ethnicity, but an approach by the elite which seeks to celebrate differences, rather than what people have in common. This is where integration fails, as people are encouraged to look inwards rather than outwards. There is also a sense of victim-mentality which tends to get encouraged. This makes integration much harder.

[Cort Haus]

Not sure what the point is with all the retrospective criticism. It's Norway, they never expected something like this, were not prepared for it, and didn't know how to properly respond. A lot of it can be explained away with inexperience and shock.

What happened happened.

[BlackCat]

Not sure what the point is with all the retrospective criticism. It's Norway, they never expected something like this, were not prepared for it, and didn't know how to properly respond. A lot of it can be explained away with inexperience and shock.

What happened happened.

Sometimes you say sane things

Yeah, all scandinavian countries are like this - young people can attend summer camps of different causes without parents worrying about securtity, transport etc. Politicians can walk, cycle, jog without massive scurity ahead. That is all fine and worth fighting for, but it's of course also
a risk. If the solution to this security risk is a police state like US, I think that most scandinavians wuold rather prefer the risk.