Oslo bombed

[Hauldren Collider]

I think what KH is alluding to is that the cops look at danger not as danger to civilians but danger to themselves. Cops should be willing to sacrifice themselves to stop shooters. Even if they are outnumbered or have no tactical advantage, the important thing is to get as many resources in play as you can as fast as you can. It's not a battlefield. The victory condition is how many lives you save.

This isn't armchair general here. When firefighters ran into the crumbling world trade center buildings, they weren't thinking of personal safety, and as a result they saved a lot of lives at the expense of many of their own, but if they'd waited until it was safe to go in, they wouldn't have saved anyone.

[KrazyHorse]

You have no idea what I'm talking about.

[Hauldren Collider]

Sorry. That was the impression I got from "oh, one cop should just jump out of the helicopter", which is a bit unorthodox.

[germanos]

Wait, what? Red cross neutrality towards mass murderers?

Unfortunately, yes.

I see nothing ridiculous about emergency services cooperating and combining resources. Look, they would need doctors there too. It's not unreasonable to suggest that they use hospital helicopters to move both cops AND doctors.

Yes it is unreasonable. What would keep *******s like Anders from shooting at ambulances, doctors, nurses and Med-evac 'copters if they start posing a threat by carrying cops or perhaps soldiers?

I'm saying the resources were there for them to have stopped the rampage, but they went with BOATS.

Hospital helicopters are NOT part of their resources.

[Kuciwalker]

My expertise is from playing absolutely ridiculous amounts of Flight Simulator 2004 when I was in middle school. Kuci can attest to this. I used to actually want to be a pilot...

Yeah, HC is not BSing this one.

[Hauldren Collider]

Unfortunately, yes.


Yes it is unreasonable. What would keep *******s like Anders from shooting at ambulances, doctors, nurses and Med-evac 'copters if they start posing a threat by carrying cops or perhaps soldiers?

What stops him from doing that now? He shot a whole bunch of teenagers at a summer camp, are you suggesting he'd draw the line at hospitals? What the ****?

[Heraclitus]

We had not a rise in leftist, anti-western, anti-christian or pro-islam parties throughout Europe in recent years, but rather the opposite, albeit in various derees. Complaining about the mainstream opressing stuff is mostly a sexy way to generate support. I remember how supporters claimed Sarrazin was not allowed to say his stuff/make his case/whatever while he had a bestseller running. Yes, I've also seen media treating him not very well. But I can see mainstream media treating Merkel's CDU, the Social Democrats, the Greens and especially the postcommie/but-in-parts-still-marxist leftists not very well all the time without there being a giant monolithic elite controlling everything.

I wasn't talking about a giant monolithic elite, I was simply talking about biases, and also great disconnect between the working class, and lower middle classes on the one hand and the upper class and intellectuals of leftist parties on the other.

The irony is that one of the reasons why many among the upper classes are so proud of being PC is because it reliably differentiates those who grew up in the lower classes and lets them look down on them (rather unPC no?), its basically the same mechanism of feeling morally superior to the working class as the Victorian era knew, just the standards of morality have changed, and like with the old morality the upper classes are hypocrites since they can afford to live away from any dysfunction mass immigration and failed assimilation policies. Complaining about multiculturalism is a sign that you are too poor to escape its negatives.

[germanos]

What stops him from doing that now? He shot a whole bunch of teenagers at a summer camp, are you suggesting he'd draw the line at hospitals? What the ****?

Who knows?
What is more likely is that if Red Cross vehicles might as well carry cops or soldiers no-one else is going to respect their neutrality either.

At least that is the Red Cross's reasonable position on the matter.

[Al B. Sure!]

I wasn't talking about a giant monolithic elite, I was simply talking about biases, and also great disconnect between the working class, and lower middle classes on the one hand and the upper class and intellectuals of leftist parties on the other.

The irony is that one of the reasons why many among the upper classes are so proud of being PC is because it reliably differentiates those who grew up in the lower classes and lets them look down on them (rather unPC no?), its basically the same mechanism of feeling morally superior to the working class as the Victorian era knew, just the standards of morality have changed, and like with the old morality the upper classes are hypocrites since they can afford to live away from any dysfunction mass immigration and failed assimilation policies. Complaining about multiculturalism is a sign that you are too poor to escape its negatives.

[lightblue]

FRom what I saw, the island didn't look like it'd been easy for a helicopter to land, if at all. Not sure if Norway has any helicopters and police troops that would allow them to rappel down into the woods.

[Al B. Sure!]

FRom what I saw, the island didn't look like it'd been easy for a helicopter to land, if at all. Not sure if Norway has any helicopters and police troops that would allow them to rappel down into the woods.

I see places to land:



If the US military could conduct vertical envelopment into the Vietnamese jungles, I see no reason why that island would have been impenetrable, especially given the visible clearings.

As an aside, that island is freaking tiny.

[Dinner]

The helicopters wouldn't have to land (though as Albert pointed out there are spots for that) as they could air assault it using rip lines like the US Army does with the Air Assault teams. That's assuming some organization in Norway had the equipment and trained men nearby to respond it such a way which seems doubtful.

[Al B. Sure!]

Apparently, the boat that they used to sail (is it sail even when a boat doesn't have a sail?) over there was taking on water and during the trip, the police were using buckets to empty the water out of the boat.

Norway should be ashamed of the mess that apparently is their police forces.

[Al B. Sure!]

See and I see quotes like this:

Police spokeman Johan Fredriksen told a press conference this afternoon that: 'The police helicopters are only useful for observation, not for transporting groups of police."

And it seems like bull****. Maybe wikipedia is wrong but that's where I got information on the Oslo PD's two helicopters, both of which have the capacity to carry at least 6 passengers each. Maybe wikipedia is wrong or out of date or something but it really seems like the police are lying.

[Hauldren Collider]

They should have no difficulty at all landing on those open grassy parts if they are experienced pilots and the weather is as calm as it is in this picture, particularly if they are medevac pilots. As I recall, Medevac pilots are expected to make those sorts of landings regularly.

Think about it--helicopters can land on ships and skyscrapers.