:thumbs up: New York

[Asher]

Why should the 99 percent change to accommodate the 1 percent? Makes no sense at all.

You're absolutely correct. This statement makes no sense at all.

The only person who needs to accommodate anything is the clerk at city hall giving out the certificates. I would personally apologize to this person if it upset them so much...

[Asher]

BTW, Ben, thank you for mentioning Chris Kempling. I've read about him and his case now: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Kempling

And now, more than ever, I'm thinking we should keep the HRT/HRC. They performed exactly as intended here. And one more bigot in a position of power who was actively encouraging gay teens to become emotionally traumatized with fake treatment was made to shut up.

Lesson to Chris Kempling: When your employer tells you to STFU, it's a good idea to STFU and not perform national interviews where you say the exact things you were warned not to say. Chris Kempling wasn't punished by gay marriage -- he was punished by his own stupidity.

[Ben Kenobi]

Again, what exactly do you need to accommodate? If I get married to my partner, it doesn't affect the happily married heterosexual family next door.

What's preventing you from doing so without the certificate?

Your obsession with denying gays equal rights says otherwise

Fun question, precisely how many threads debating gay marriage have I started here?

I know what I like, and I get what I like very frequently. Et tu, Ben?

Which is why you post twice as much as I do?

If I dug women, I wouldn't repress it. I'd go for it. I'd have 3 ways. The more the merrier.

I'm about as unrepressed as you can get sexually, Ben. You, on the other hand, are a sexually insecure 30 year old virgin. This is no contest.

And you *know* all there is to know about me.

I'm not the one projecting my feelings on you. I could care less about what your feelings are on the issue and I state why I reject your ideas.

You always respond by saying that if I reject gay marriage I must be a repressed homosexual myself. WTF?

What's that got to do with anything?! It's a terrible argument, but you use it *constantly*.

How the **** did gay marriage punish Chris Kempling?

He was fired from teaching for rejecting the use of pornographic gay magazines in his classroom as a classroom resource, and writing about the policy in the local paper.

PS: You sound like a pinko commie.

I sound like a commie because I believe that involuntary taxation is no different from slavery? I guess I must have missed that part between the uprising of the bourgeosie and the isolation of the masses.

How is it circular logic if your argument isn't?

I have to explain this to a programmer.

a has never existed before.

You argue that b now exists

Ergo, a is no longer true? WTF? I hope you aren't a programmer. That's circular logic.

In what definition is marriage between a man or a woman?

Again, this is circular logic. Are you arguing that if the definition were to change back in Canada that gay marriage never existed? Funny that.

Not in Canada, not in most Canadian churches. Not in many US churches and not in 6 US states. It seems patently obvious that there is no "one definition of marriage".

So if one church declared slavery to be freedom, that would mean that freedom was now slavery? Ridiculous.

Here's the fact, asher. Doesn't matter how many people go and say that they personally believe in X if X is false. Doesn't matter a lick. You can redefine words however much you want, but it doesn't change what the truth is.

any Christian between the ages of 2 and 99.

I don't use gay that way, there are much better words that express the same idea. Like those brits and their cancer sticks.

[Ben Kenobi]

I'm thinking we should keep the HRT/HRC. They performed exactly as intended here. And one more bigot in a position of power who was actively encouraging gay teens to become emotionally traumatized with fake treatment was made to shut up.

You might want to post his letter that he wrote.

He was fired for writing a letter explaining his decision to remove the gay newsletter X-TRA West as a classroom resource.

Oh and folks should google it just to see what we are dealing with. It's NSFW though.

[giblets]

I googled "X-TRA West" and this was the first result I got, but I don't see anything NSFW:
http://www.xtra.ca/public/National.aspx
Maybe you should present your evidence instead of asking other people to search for it?

[Asher]

What's preventing you from doing so without the certificate?

There's no legal benefit without the certificate. Estate law, insurance, hospital visitations, power of attorney, etc are not impacted. That's why there's the certificate.

Fun question, precisely how many threads debating gay marriage have I started here?

More accurately, how many words have you typed in threads discussing homosexuality? It's an alarming number.

Which is why you post twice as much as I do?

I don't get laid at work.

And you *know* all there is to know about me.

You're an open book and have admitted to being a virgin.

You always respond by saying that if I reject gay marriage I must be a repressed homosexual myself. WTF?

What's that got to do with anything?! It's a terrible argument, but you use it *constantly*.

Because there is no rational argument to be made against gay marriage. None. The only explanation is sexual insecurity.

And given the record for Republican politicians voting against gay marriage and getting caught with gay prostitutes, it's pretty much an established pattern.

He was fired from teaching for rejecting the use of pornographic gay magazines in his classroom as a classroom resource, and writing about the policy in the local paper.

This is demonstrably false. You are a terrible Christian for lying like this. Truly.

I have to explain this to a programmer.

a has never existed before.

You argue that b now exists

Ergo, a is no longer true? WTF? I hope you aren't a programmer. That's circular logic.

You have no idea that you are self-pwning right now, do you?

Marriage was not exclusively between man and woman in the beginning. Christians tried to make it so in recent centuries. Now you are saying that marriage is between a man and woman because it is.

It's the exact same argument.

Again, this is circular logic. Are you arguing that if the definition were to change back in Canada that gay marriage never existed? Funny that.

Fact: You stated marriage is defined as being between man and woman.
Fact: It is most certainly not.
Fact: You were wrong.

Here's the fact, asher. Doesn't matter how many people go and say that they personally believe in X if X is false. Doesn't matter a lick. You can redefine words however much you want, but it doesn't change what the truth is.

So what the **** are you so worried about?

I don't use gay that way, there are much better words that express the same idea. Like those brits and their cancer sticks.

Yes, you're classy enough to call everyone a f@g instead.

[Asher]

You might want to post his letter that he wrote.

He was fired for writing a letter explaining his decision to remove the gay newsletter X-TRA West as a classroom resource.

Oh and folks should google it just to see what we are dealing with. It's NSFW though.

There's nothing NSFW about Xtra. It's all over schools and campuses...

Additionally, he was fired because:
1) He wrote to public newspapers denouncing the "homosexual lifestyle"
2) He encouraged kids who think they may be gay to come to him for "treatment", something that every single psychological association denounces as not only ineffective, but actually harmful
3) He called homosexuality a "perversion" and denounced all homosexuals as promiscuous

After this letter, he was suspended with pay for a month and told not to voice his opinions on the matter publicly because it was not conducive to a safe and respectful learning environment.

His response was to say the same things, this time nationally on radio. He went one step further and actively advertised his private "counseling service" to convert gays to becoming straight.

It was at this point he was fired. This is because in Canada, the school district is to "ensure the school system is free from discriminatory attitudes about homosexuals". He was also cited for "conduct unbecoming of a teacher" by the provincial teachers organization, and had his certification revoked.

At no point was he fired for "removing gay pornography from the classroom".

He wasn't punished by gay marriage. A teacher who wrote in to public newspapers with racist tirades several times, after being warned to stop, would be fired too. I suppose you think the darkies are punishing the Aryans there, too?

[Ben Kenobi]

There's nothing NSFW about Xtra. It's all over schools and campuses...

Yeah, there is. I've seen it for myself.

Additionally, he was fired because:
1) He wrote to public newspapers denouncing the "homosexual lifestyle"
2) He encouraged kids who think they may be gay to come to him for "treatment", something that every single psychological association denounces as not only ineffective, but actually harmful
3) He called homosexuality a "perversion" and denounced all homosexuals as promiscuous

Where in the 6 letters that he wrote does he actually say these things?

He was a counsellor for 20 years without a complaint from his students. As a school counsellor he was effective at doing his job.

After this letter, he was suspended with pay for a month and told not to voice his opinions on the matter publicly because it was not conducive to a safe learning environment.

Despite evidence filed on his behalf by his students at the time. Some of whom were gay.

His response was to say the same things, this time nationally on radio. He went one step further and actively advertised his private "counseling service" to convert gays to becoming straight.

He's spoken at the UN as well too. Ostensiably on human rights and their conflict with faith and religious practice. Expression of religious beliefs in the public sphere should not have got him fired, when he did not and never expressed these statements in the classroom. A public school teacher should be permitted to comment on any and all public issues of the day without the threat of sanction from the BCTF. This goes for everyone, not just Kempling or Christians, or whatever the matter might be.

Conduct in the classroom, on the other hand is a different matter entirely.

It was at this point he was fired. This is because in Canada, the school district is to "ensure the school system is free from discriminatory attitudes about homosexuals". He was also cited for "conduct unbecoming of a teacher" by the provincial teachers organization, and had his certification revoked.

Yes, but the only conduct that was cited were his letters to the editor, not anything that he did as a school teacher and counsellor in Corrilieu.

At no point was he fired for "removing gay pornography from the classroom".

That's precisely what one of his letters to the editor was about, removing X-Tra West, which I can't even post here.

[Asher]

Yeah, there is. I've seen it for myself.

As if we need more evidence you are gay, Ben...

And no, there's nothing NSFW. People can see the site for themselves. You're a liar.

Where in the 6 letters that he wrote does he actually say these things?

Link to the letters and read them. Liar.

Despite evidence filed on his behalf by his students at the time. Some of whom were gay.

Liar.

He's spoken at the UN as well too. Ostensiably on human rights and their conflict with faith and religious practice. Expression of religious beliefs in the public sphere should not have got him fired

According to who?

He was fired by elected board members, and the decision was backed by the Human Rights Commission, the Human Rights Tribunal, and the Supreme Court.

I know I certainly would not feel comfortable and respected in that man's classroom. No homosexual could honestly say they would. He was a teacher in a secular public district. Not a private school, not even a Catholic district. Secular. Public.

I could get fired for inappropriate public comments if I connect them to my work (as he did in his letters). It's in the conduct agreement most professionals sign.

That's precisely what one of his letters to the editor was about, removing X-Tra West, which I can't even post here.

You can't post it here because it exposes you as a liar.

[giblets]

Yeah, there is. I've seen it for myself.

Maybe you should provide a link! Then I would actually believe you, because I can't find anything NSFW on their website.

[Asher]

Maybe you should provide a link! Then I would actually believe you, because I can't find anything NSFW on their website.

[Asher]

The more I read about Kempling, the more I laugh at his shrill whining. "THEY HATE ME BECAUSE I'M CHRISTIAN! Every gay I've met likes me!"

[Ben Kenobi]

There's no legal benefit without the certificate. Estate law, insurance, hospital visitations, power of attorney, etc are not impacted. That's why there's the certificate.

You can do all that without the certificate.

Again, how does it impact your relationship to not have the certificate? What negative repercussions are there for you.

Seems to me you don't want to go through the bother to set things up so you want other people to accommodate you. Fair enough, but there's really no cause for it, to make 99 percent of the people change to make the 1 percent happy.

More accurately, how many words have you typed in threads discussing homosexuality? It's an alarming number.

More accurately how many words do people who obsess about gay marriage post here on Apolyton in the threads that they start? An alarming number. If people on apolyton who supported gay marriage didn't post here, there would be no gay marriage threads. I don't start them.

I don't get laid at work.

Right. Working hard I see.

You're an open book and have admitted to being a virgin.

I have. But what you are commenting about implies knowledge that you don't have. I'm frankly amused that you've labelled me this way. Why would you think this?

Because there is no rational argument to be made against gay marriage. None. The only explanation is sexual insecurity.

GSM. Thank you asher. Couldn't have said it better myself.

And given the record for Republican politicians voting against gay marriage and getting caught with gay prostitutes, it's pretty much an established pattern.

I guess I'll have to tell Juan, not tonight. Sad.

You are a terrible Christian for lying like this. Truly.

It's NSFW, and I can't post it here. Why is it in the classrooms? I would have burnt them all if they were in my classroom, but thankfully, the administrator doesn't make me use anything that we've not already discussed.

Marriage was not exclusively between man and woman in the beginning.

Finally, a non-circular argument. Evidence? The evidence I see is that the Greeks had a different concept for both relationships, and used different words for them.

Christians tried to make it so in recent centuries. Now you are saying that marriage is between a man and woman because it is.

It's always been defined that way. Some people in very recent times have managed to convince the legislature to pass bills saying that X is Y, but that's not going to change what it is. There are plenty of silly laws on the book.

Fact: You stated marriage is defined as being between man and woman.
Fact: It is most certainly not.
Fact: You were wrong.

How am I wrong to say that marriage is defined as being between a man and a woman? You've even admitted this is true.

So what the **** are you so worried about?

Why are you telling people to *use* a different construct? That's what got my hackles up. Some people see marriage as being something real, not a construct. You can't change it.

Yes, you're classy enough to call everyone a f@g instead.

No, that's all you, Asher. Personally I've found gay people find it derogatory, but then what do I know?

[Asher]

This is also gold:

It is a black day for religious freedom in Canada. Yesterday, Justice Ronald Holmes of the BC Supreme Court ruled that the BC College of Teachers was correct in suspending me for one month for letters to the editor written on my own time in my off the job capacity. He stated that my comments were discriminatory and could reasonably cause disruption to the school system. He implied that homosexual students would be unwilling to speak to me in my role as a school counsellor. Justice Holmes asserted that my published comments reduced my credibility as a teacher in the eyes of students, and the public.

There was no evidence presented that this was true.

This man should've been fired on the grounds of being so damn stupid.

[giblets]

Right. Working hard I see.

Wait, isn't it 11 at night in Calgary? What is Asher doing posting on Apolyton when he should be working?