What If - the Spanish Aramada had succeded

[Al B. Sure!]

Albert, I'm talking about the connection between Philip of France to the English throne. Yes, it was well known, yes it was commented at the time. Molly even agrees with me here! It wasn't exactly news to them, but it is news to a world today that has forgotten about most of the old connections that once bound the world together.

Cite please. One citation. Give me one primary source or even a good secondary source. Come on, historian.

[Al B. Sure!]

Apparently, to Ben, what makes a monarch's reign significant is if he has a lot of kids and every one of his kids have kids and so forth until the end of time. Who cares what the monarch does in terms of his actual reign! That isn't significant!

[Ben Kenobi]

Edward III? Do you even understand what SIGNIFICANCE means? Who the **** cares what the descendants do. How does that determine significance? It's what they do in their reign that is significant or not!

In a hereditary monarchy, whether you do or do not leave an heir is extremely significant. Over hundreds of years, it will far overshadow any other accomplishments over your lifetime.

[Al B. Sure!]

In a hereditary monarchy, whether you do or do not leave an heir is extremely significant. Over hundreds of years, it will far overshadow any other accomplishments over your lifetime.

Yeah to the King himself maybe or to crazies like you. But to normal people, what the King actually does is FAR more important.

[Ben Kenobi]

Cite please. One citation. Give me one primary source or even a good secondary source. Come on, historian.

First I want to be sure that you are asking the right question. The question is 'was it common knowledge when Mary was married to Philip of Spain, that he had a significant genealogical connection to the English throne." Do you agree with this, Albert? That this is the question we are examining?

[Ben Kenobi]

Ask Henry VIII, Albert. You don't think his lack of an heir with Catherine is significant?

[Al B. Sure!]

The House of Wessex was short-lived and died out in the 11th century yet Alfred is still Alfred the Great. Maybe he should have been called Alfred the Insignificant since his dynasty didn't last long.

[Al B. Sure!]

First I want to be sure that you are asking the right question. The question is 'was it common knowledge when Mary was married to Philip of Spain, that he had a significant genealogical connection to the English throne." Do you agree with this, Albert? That this is the question we are examining?

No the **** it is not, goalpost mover!

You assertion was that Philip had a greater claim to the English throne than any of the Tudors, most specifically Bloody Mary and Elizabeth and that he exercised his claims and that his claims were the basis of the Armada and planned invasion of England.

[Ben Kenobi]

The House of Wessex was short-lived and died out in the 11th century yet Alfred is still Alfred the Great. Maybe he should have been called Alfred the Insignificant since his dynasty didn't last long.

He built what is known today as England together, but you are right. It was his son who was the significant one.

[Ben Kenobi]

No the **** it is not, goalpost mover!

Then we are not really arguing the same thing. I rest my case.

Philip had a greater claim to the English throne than any of the Tudors, most specifically Bloody Mary and Elizabeth

Yes, I did assert that this was my opinion. However, I never did assert that people at the time believed that Philip's claim was greater. I did assert that they were quite aware of his connections to the Englis throne.

and that he exercised his claims.

I consider leading an invasion of England a la the Glorious Revolution, or say Henry IV, as yes, yes he did attempt to exercise his claims. It is ironic that the king rejected by the Spanish for not being Spanish enough, was rejected by the British for being too Spanish.

[Al B. Sure!]

And so Felipe II never went to Parliament and was like, "Hey guys. You guys know I'm a descendant of John of Gaunt, right? I mean technically, that makes me more in the royal line than my wife, Mary. What's with all this she's the Queen, the Head of State, and I'm just a King-Consort?" nor did he go to the Pope and was like, "Pope, dude, you know I'm a descendant of John of Gaunt. My wife Mary is a bastard child. But these pesky English don't want to make me King. Hook a Habsburg up, your Holiness. Tell the English who are still Catholic that I'm the rightful King and hook me up."

Felipe II was well-aware he had no basis for his claims, even if he was distantly related to a long-dead King.

[giblets]

Only in the Beniverse is Margaret Tudor more significant than Henry VIII or Elizabeth

What planet are you from? What history did you learn? Henry VIII could have sat on his ass his entire reign and did nothing more than break from the Catholic church and he still did something hugely significant. That is why this topic is even being discussed because Henry VIII's break from the Catholic church had a huge effect on the history of England, of Europe, and of the world, and the part of the discussion here is if a successful Armada would have changed the religious composition and direction of England.

Yeah, I've never even heard of Margaret Tudor.

[Ben Kenobi]

If he had won, as the Glorious Revolution won, I suspect we'd be looking at a far different world today.

[giblets]

Yeah. North America would be more like Latin America. Glad we dodged that bullet.

[Al B. Sure!]

Yeah, I've never even heard of Margaret Tudor.

To Ben, she's significant because she married James IV of Scotland, producing James V of Scotland, who produced Mary Queen of Scots, who produced James I of England and the Stuart dynasty.

That's about all she did, though. Got married, took a penis up her vagina, and birthed 6 children, of which only one, James, survived.

Yeah. She is so much more important and significant than Henry VIII and Elizabeth