What If - the Spanish Aramada had succeded

[giblets]

It's not me. It's the written histories of historians that back me up here.

Just like I said. You don't know better than the 16th century Spanish. But nice going with the appeal to authority

[Dr Strangelove]

You could modify the OP by asking what would have happened if Henry the VIII's son by Catherine had lived. Think about it. Henry would have had no reason to divorce Catherine. There would have been no break with the Roman church, at least at that time. Lutheranism was gaining converts in England. The question would be then would a descendent of Henry's eventually find reason to favor the protestants. Given the power politics of the time I think that's likely. The spoils of the world were being divied up between the Portugese and the Spanish. The territory of Europe was being divied up between the Hapsburgs and the French, yet England was as much as any of these a full nation state. Eventually the English would have found it useful to thumb their noses at the Papacy, which seemed to favor just about every other nation above the English. Of course, one reason for that is that the Spanish, French and Germans could easily come down into Italy and personally have their way with the Pope. The English were safer to ignore.

What is so important about the Protestant Reformation in England is that once it took hold under Edward and Elizabeth the people prized it enough to risk revolution when their protestant faith was threatened. The English Civil War, though in the short term a failure, established the right of the people's representatives, the Parliament, to employ the sovreign at their pleasure. Replacing (james II)and selecting ( Anne, George I) the sovreign a couple more times eventually established the supremacy of representative government. Et voila, you have the rise of democracy.

[Al B. Sure!]

You could modify the OP by asking what would have happened if Henry the VIII's son by Catherine had lived. Think about it. Henry would have had no reason to divorce Catherine. There would have been no break with the Roman church, at least at that time. Lutheranism was gaining converts in England. The question would be then would a descendent of Henry's eventually find reason to favor the protestants. Given the power politics of the time I think that's likely. The spoils of the world were being divied up between the Portugese and the Spanish. The territory of Europe was being divied up between the Hapsburgs and the French, yet England was as much as any of these a full nation state. Eventually the English would have found it useful to thumb their noses at the Papacy, which seemed to favor just about every other nation above the English. Of course, one reason for that is that the Spanish, French and Germans could easily come down into Italy and personally have their way with the Pope. The English were safer to ignore.

What is so important about the Protestant Reformation in England is that once it took hold under Edward and Elizabeth the people prized it enough to risk revolution when their protestant faith was threatened. The English Civil War, though in the short term a failure, established the right of the people's representatives, the Parliament, to employ the sovreign at their pleasure. Replacing (james II)and selecting ( Anne, George I) the sovreign a couple more times eventually established the supremacy of representative government. Et voila, you have the rise of democracy.

Yeah there's been many times in history where it seems a personal whim had drastic consequences but the tide was already turning towards that way.

Speaking of religious conversions, there's the story of the Kievan Rus becoming Christian. From wikipedia:

The Primary Chronicle states that when Vladimir had decided to accept a new faith instead of the traditional idol-worship (paganism) of the Slavs, he sent out some of his most valued advisors and warriors as emissaries to different parts of Europe. The emissaries visited the Christians of the Latin Rite, the Jews and the Muslims, they finally arrived in Constantinople. They rejected Islam because, among other things, it prohibited the consumption of alcohol, and Judaism because the god of the Jews had permitted his chosen people to be deprived of their country. They found the ceremonies in the Roman church to be dull. But, at Constantinople, they were so astounded by the beauty of the cathedral of Hagia Sophia and the liturgical service held there, that they made up their minds there and then about the faith they would like to follow. Upon their arrival home, they convinced Vladimir that the faith of the Byzantine Rite was the best choice of all, upon which Vladimir made a journey to Constantinople and arranged to marry with Princess Anna, the sister of the Byzantine emperor, Basil II.[17]

It's sounds so whimsical and makes it seem like Russia could have wound up being Catholic or Muslim (with enormous consequences on history) if not for personal whims but it downplays the fact that the Rus were converting to Orthodoxy rapidly at the time (in fact, Vladimir's grandmother, Olga, was an Orthodox Christian and is venerated as a Saint) and that the Byzantines had been trying to develop a peace and possible alliance with their northern neighbors. So the tides were already going in favor of the Kievans becoming Orthodox Christian.


I think Henry VIII's conversion is similar. Circumstances were already putting England on the path of Protestantism, even without Henry VIII's crappy Y-sperm.