WW2 What If?

[David Floyd]

Well, a delivery system without a deliverable weapon is kind of ****ing useless. Of course, via the heavy bomber, the US developed both.

[David Floyd]

Also, early atomic bombs were FAR too heavy of payloads for any existing rocket or rocket on the drawing board at the time. Germany's only viable delivery system was via suicide U-boat.

[Ben Kenobi]

any existing rocket

If only we had a better rocket...

[David Floyd]

Let's just make this a first, BK, and admit that I'm right and you're wrong

[Solomwi]

What do you mean by this?

Just that after Pearl, the IJN basically acted like they didn't know what to do next. If anything, the loss of American carriers at Pearl would exacerbate that problem, since the continued existence of the carriers gave the IJN at least a clear idea of what the "next step" should try to accomplish.

[Ben Kenobi]

When I can quote Albert Speer to prove you wrong? I'm sure it's a phrase never uttered here on Poly before..

[David Floyd]

Just that after Pearl, the IJN basically acted like they didn't know what to do next. If anything, the loss of American carriers at Pearl would exacerbate that problem, since the continued existence of the carriers gave the IJN at least a clear idea of what the "next step" should try to accomplish.

Well, the Kido Butai, or elements of it, participated in the conquests of DEI, the reduction of Wake Island, the incursion into the Indian Ocean, etc. In your view, what should they have done?

BK,

When I can quote Albert Speer to prove you wrong? I'm sure it's a phrase never uttered here on Poly before..

Anytime you like. Keep in mind, of course, that Albert Speer was much like Heinz Guderian in that after the war, he threw most of his contemporaries under the bus in order to make himself look better. Also, I'm not sure what exactly Albert Speer knew about nuclear physics or the atomic bomb. In light of that, though, go ahead and quote him if you think it will help.

[Ben Kenobi]

You missed the dig at Poly's Albert.

[David Floyd]

There is also a 0% chance that Poly's Speer could prove me wrong at anything that didn't involve gangsta life.

[Ben Kenobi]

Aren't hoes a part of that?

[David Floyd]

Just black hoes. I avoid those, as I don't want to get AIDS. Let's stop threadjacking, though. If you want to start a thread that talks **** about hoes in the ghetto, rest assured I will participate.

[Ben Kenobi]

Why not? That could be fun.

[Solomwi]

Well, the Kido Butai, or elements of it, participated in the conquests of DEI, the reduction of Wake Island, the incursion into the Indian Ocean, etc. In your view, what should they have done?

Gone after the American carriers, at least sooner than they did, rather than piecemeal the Combined Fleet against anything and everything. That's not the point I'm making, though. With American carriers afloat, the IJN dithered before finally targeting the one element in the Pacific with the capability to defeat them. With those carriers out of commission, there's no reason to think they'd have dithered less, leading to my original point that I agree with you that they may not have actually accomplished anything more than what they did if our carriers had been at Pearl.

[David Floyd]

Gotcha, and I think you are absolutely right. The IJN was a fleet punching way above it's weight. It got in a couple of good shots but had no way to follow up. It also had no effective strategy other than "turtle up and hope we inflict a lot of casualties". Unfortunately for them, that strategy underestimated American production capacity and American technical capability, as well as our ability to take both of those elements and hop around Japanese strongholds. Whoops. The Japanese fell into the classic trap of expecting that their enemy would do just what they expected, while underestimating them at every turn.

[giblets]

That might have been what it came to, and I remind you, how would that have been different from the indiscriminate mass murder that would have resulted from Hitler and Stalin controlling Eurasia?

Well, destroying the population of Europe would probably kill several times more people.