Wisconsin Takes A Stand For Fiscal Sanity

[giblets]

Because public school teachers make so much money.

[MRT144]

Because public school teachers make so much money.

25k starting out and a 48k average in wisconsin.

Would anyone here be willing to teach for 25k their first year?

[MRT144]

Also, what is the minimum a teacher should make and the max they should make.

[MRT144]

Finally, should teaching require college and continuing education/cerification and who pays for that?

[Donegeal]

Let's start by agreeing that this should be partially determined by performance in the classroom, eh?

So you really think that teachers pay should be determined by how well the students do? I can't agree to that, and never will.

[MRT144]

So you really think that teachers pay should be determined by how well the students do? I can't agree to that, and never will.

Look at it this way; the poorest students will have the poorest teachers and everyone wins on having better education.

[DinoDoc]

So you really think that teachers pay should be determined by how well the students do? I can't agree to that, and never will.

How do you determine teacher performance if not through student performance?

[MRT144]

How do you determine teacher performance if not through student performance?

So nobody will be teaching bad students because it's not worth it.

[Wezil]

I don't see a problem with changing the definitions of essential worker to provide for arbitration as a the de facto alternative to strikes.

And it's easy to see why unions don't like certain actions. They're seeking to maximize their benefit just as much as any other party in the economy. I think vouchers are a fine idea.

As for other unions in the public sector, the police unions and prison unions are by far the worst when it comes to protecting their members in the face of obvious wrong doing, and promoting expansion of their services solely for their benefit. It's hard to argue that mandates to educate children are there solely for the benefit of teachers and their union even if legislation to ensure that is funded by the union. It's not hard to argue that funding and lobbying for legislation that keeps pot illegal, mandatory minimums etc etc are mostly for the benefit of prisons and law enforcement.

The one thing that does bother me though is this idea that it is inherently cheaper to subcontract out public services to private contractors, despite that being ambiguous at best and obviously wrong at worst. Collusion between public sector administrators and private sector contractors needs to be looked at.

I don't disagree much with what you are saying here. My only argument would be with the last bit.

1) I've seen studies and arguments both ways. Meh.
2) It isn't really an issue of economics to me. For example - The government of this province owns and runs the liquor stores (monopoly). For years now they have been under pressure to privatize but always resist using the argument (among others) that these stores make big $$ and it would be foolish to sell them. By this same logic I can think of several industries the government should get into. Convenience stores, gas stations (we tried that one), drug stores... If you work for the government you should be "essential". Full stop.

[DinoDoc]

So nobody will be teaching bad students because it's not worth it.

How exactly do you determine what a good teacher is without looking at student performance?

[Wezil]

Performance over time would be a better indicator but that is tough to pin on any one individual when several teachers will have been involved.

[MRT144]

How exactly do you determine what a good teacher is without looking at student performance?

How do you suppose we measure student performance? To that end, what do you do with A. under-performing students and B. perceived under-performing teachers?

[DaShi]

How exactly do you determine what a good teacher is without looking at student performance?

So dumb it had to be said twice.

[Ben Kenobi]

To get fired, they would literally have to have a threesome with a kangaroo and a retarded 4 year old in front of 27 eye witnesses, CCTV, the Pope, and all 9 SCOTUS Justices

Well I've got nothing more to say because Floyd knocked it out of the park.

[Ben Kenobi]

So nobody will be teaching bad students because it's not worth it.

One, you're assuming that teacher performance has nothing to do with student performance.

Two, why climb mountains? Because it's a challenge.