Wisconsin Takes A Stand For Fiscal Sanity

[DinoDoc]

Think of like a school yard bully. The only way the other kids can stand up to the school yard bully is by banding together. Walker is trying to make it so the kids can't band together.

Seems like more an attempt to prevent a "crew" (in this case unions) from robbing the State blind ala California.

[DaShi]

What I don't understand is that if middle class wages have actually shrunk since the 1980s (adjusting for inflation) how can unions be blamed for the financial crisis?

Who is sitting back reaping the revenues from this crisis? Middle-class workers or possibly, and I'm just throwing this out there, wealthy upper class financiers who were directly involved and benefited from the financial crisis?

[MRT144]

Government is a monopoly and when government workers strike the public has no alternative (competitor) to turn to. It provides undue leverage to the union that simply does not exist for unions the private sector. Negotiations are never on a level playing field.

So we shouldn't have equal application of basic law to workers depending on their employer. And by alternatives what do you mean? You can homeschool, just as easily as a teacher can "find another job" if they don't like it. And for a lot of integral public goods like fire and police, they usually aren't allowed to strike. So really you want to go after teachers and public transport workers.

[DaShi]

Once the public sector is gone, there will be no more middle class jobs. Republicans will then, finally, be happy.

[MRT144]

Seems like more an attempt to prevent a "crew" (in this case unions) from robbing the State blind ala California.

why did the state negotiate so poorly? Is someone at an investment bank at fault when they negotiate a compensation increase on threat of withholding their services and then maximizes their benefit during that negotiation and while working?

[Wezil]

So we shouldn't have equal application of basic law to workers depending on their employer.

Not if you are an "essential" worker (see my earlier post). Binding arbitration if an agreement can't be reached. No strike.

And by alternatives what do you mean? You can homeschool, just as easily as a teacher can "find another job" if they don't like it.

No, the vast majority of citizens that work for a living cannot home school their children. I would propose school vouchers to allow more choice and remove the monopoly. The unions don't like that one either.

And for a lot of integral public goods like fire and police, they usually aren't allowed to strike.

I gather from the first line of your post you would disagree with this?

So really you want to go after teachers and public transport workers.

I would deem them essential (or change the system).

Garbage workers would be high on my list. They don't need to be public employees in the first place and should be privatized.

Keep in mind, this argument varies by jurisdiction depending on what your particular government does/employs.

Full Disclosure: I am the son of a unionized teacher and unionized autoworker. I myself have belonged to two separate unions in my life and currently perform a job whereby I could cross the aisle and become a public servant without too much effort in short order.

[MRT144]

Not if you are an "essential" worker (see my earlier post). Binding arbitration if an agreement can't be reached. No strike.

And by alternatives what do you mean? You can homeschool, just as easily as a teacher can "find another job" if they don't like it.

No, the vast majority of citizens that work for a living cannot home school their children. I would propose school vouchers to allow more choice and remove the monopoly. The unions don't like that one either.



I gather from the first line of your post you would disagree with this?



I would deem them essential (or change the system).

Garbage workers would be high on my list. They don't need to be public employees in the first place and should be privatized.

Keep in mind, this argument varies by jurisdiction depending on what your particular government does/employs.

Full Disclosure: I am the son of a unionized teacher and unionized autoworker. I myself have belonged to two separate unions in my life and currently perform a job whereby I could cross the aisle and become a public servant without too much effort in short order.

I don't see a problem with changing the definitions of essential worker to provide for arbitration as a the de facto alternative to strikes.

And it's easy to see why unions don't like certain actions. They're seeking to maximize their benefit just as much as any other party in the economy. I think vouchers are a fine idea.

As for other unions in the public sector, the police unions and prison unions are by far the worst when it comes to protecting their members in the face of obvious wrong doing, and promoting expansion of their services solely for their benefit. It's hard to argue that mandates to educate children are there solely for the benefit of teachers and their union even if legislation to ensure that is funded by the union. It's not hard to argue that funding and lobbying for legislation that keeps pot illegal, mandatory minimums etc etc are mostly for the benefit of prisons and law enforcement.

The one thing that does bother me though is this idea that it is inherently cheaper to subcontract out public services to private contractors, despite that being ambiguous at best and obviously wrong at worst. Collusion between public sector administrators and private sector contractors needs to be looked at.

[giblets]

What I don't understand is that if middle class wages have actually shrunk since the 1980s (adjusting for inflation) how can unions be blamed for the financial crisis?

Who is sitting back reaping the revenues from this crisis? Middle-class workers or possibly, and I'm just throwing this out there, wealthy upper class financiers who were directly involved and benefited from the financial crisis?

It's always because taxes are too high or unions have too much clout. Simple formula: cut taxes whenever there's a surplus, then when an economic downturn creates a deficit blame teachers for the "budget crisis".

[DinoDoc]

You don't blame the teachers for the budget. You blame their unions for the state of the school system.

[DaShi]

Why? It's not the unions' fault the school system has the problems it does.

[DinoDoc]

Interestingly enough, the teachers union in WA is currently engaging in an illegal strike over this: http://www.channel3000.com/education...06/detail.html

[DinoDoc]

Why? It's not the unions' fault the school system has the problems it does.

Teachers rally in opposition of reform

[DaShi]

Sorry, you're going to have to use your brain. That doesn't prove anything.

[DaShi]

I'll wait....

[Hauldren Collider]

So you're saying that in a budget crisis, it's fundamentally fair that unions, and especially public sector unions, retain special privileges and lower costs? Do you think it's fundamentally fair that they do so, while at the same time continue to not be held accountable for their lack of performance (ie, teachers)?

It's not fair unless they contributed to his campaign, apparently.