Wisconsin Takes A Stand For Fiscal Sanity

[MRT144]

Look, the entire theory behind collective bargaining was that it shifts power from employers to workers because otherwise, employers will abuse the workers. But in this case we are the employer. If we don't want to abuse the workers, why don't we just, hm, not abuse them rather than giving them the power to extort us?

I wish we could count on Republicans to not predicate part of their platform on destroying the public sector.

[MRT144]

Instead, what we have is tremendous rent-seeking behavior by public sector unions, lazy and inefficient government and taxpayers being bled dry in exchange for poor service. Anybody who thinks government should provide more services should be on board with breaking the backs of the people responsible for people's low opinion of their government's effectiveness.

Rent seeking isn't unique to public sector unions though. In fact some of the worst agents in rent seeking are for profit agencies that provide public goods; Prisons being probably the most outrageous of the bunch.

[KrazyHorse]

Rent seeking isn't unique to public sector unions though. In fact some of the worst agents in rent seeking are for profit agencies that provide public goods; Prisons being probably the most outrageous of the bunch.

I think you would be tremendously hard-pressed to demonstrate that private prisons have anywhere near the sway of the major public-sector unions, who are perhaps the most effective lobbying group in the history of the US or other countries. The only competitor may be FNMA et al.

[KrazyHorse]

I wish we could count on Republicans to not predicate part of their platform on destroying the public sector.

What the hell does "protecting the public sector" have to do with "protecting the compensation of those employed by the public sector at above-market rates"? Firing public sector workers doesn't require Republicans to break their unions.

[MRT144]

I think you would be tremendously hard-pressed to demonstrate that private prisons have anywhere near the sway of the major public-sector unions, who are perhaps the most effective lobbying group in the history of the US or other countries. The only competitor may be FNMA et al.

I'd be willing to bet that the per capita benefits (mostly received by favorable law enforcement legislation, and prison building activities) is greater than other public sector unions. Also, correctional spending has increased at a far greater pace than anything other than medicaid

http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2009/03/03/us/03prisons.graphic.ready.html

Higher education spending has gone down as a % of the budget while prisons have increased in California

http://www.newsweek.com/content/newsweek/2010/06/28/classrooms-or-prison-cells/_jcr_content/body/inlineimage.img.png/1277695326254.png

I don't really think that unions, especially education unions have really been more effective at maximizing their benefit as prisons have, despite prisons being a smaller sector.

[MRT144]

What the hell does "protecting the public sector" have to do with "protecting the compensation of those employed by the public sector at above-market rates"? Firing public sector workers doesn't require Republicans to break their unions.

Layoffs and paycuts could be considered abuse by affected parties if it is done out of purely ideological reasons.

[Kuciwalker]

I wish we could count on Republicans to not predicate part of their platform on destroying the public sector.

How would Republicans abusing government employees (in the sense of paying as little money as possible for as much output as possible, which is precisely the behavior private sector unions are designed to prevent) 'destroy the public sector'?

Or is your support for public sector unions actually based on the idea that it creates an institutional barrier against Republican voters trying to cut spending on public services, and because they create an organized political lobby for Democratic policies? If so, Republicans have absolutely every right to be outraged and try to eliminate them.

[MRT144]

How would Republicans abusing government employees (in the sense of paying as little money as possible for as much output as possible, which is precisely the behavior private sector unions are designed to prevent) 'destroy the public sector'?

Definitely the former. How does debasing the benefits and morale result in an effective public sector?

[Kuciwalker]

How does 'debasing the benefits and morale' result in a more profitable private firm?

If the behavior by employers that unions are designed to prevent did not actually produce more output at lower costs, then unions would have been unnecessary because private firms, by and large, would not have bothered.

[Krill]

They're not striking, they are collectively calling in sick to work. The Superintendants are requiring teachers calling in sick to have medical excuses.

It's called stress...

[Fake Boris]

Yes.

Trusts are not free speech.

Why does free speech apply to corporations?

[Fake Boris]

What the hell does "protecting the public sector" have to do with "protecting the compensation of those employed by the public sector at above-market rates"? Firing public sector workers doesn't require Republicans to break their unions.

How do you define above-market in education?

I don't know exactly how the situation looks like in the U.S., but here... private schools pay less and have no hiring difficulties, unlike public schools. (i.e. teaching in a public school is a hell of a crappy job).

[MRT144]

How does 'debasing the benefits and morale' result in a more profitable private firm?

If the behavior by employers that unions are designed to prevent did not actually produce more output at lower costs, then unions would have been unnecessary because private firms, by and large, would not have bothered.

Do you think more people are enticed to do more work for less in a public sector job that has expensive and time consuming barriers to entry?

I don't think just eliminating teacher's unions are going to fix education or at least improve the output.

[KrazyHorse]

Is that comment supposed to make sense?

[DinoDoc]

They're not striking, they are collectively calling in sick to work. The Superintendants are requiring teachers calling in sick to have medical excuses.

Doctor Writing Fake Sick Notes for Protesting Teachers?