Wisconsin Takes A Stand For Fiscal Sanity

[Hauldren Collider]

Why are you holding teachers to a standard of social accountability that you would not ask for in anyone else?

"How dare those uppity teachers band together to secure an income. They should teach for the love of it alone!"

I don't. Why are you? I don't think anyone should be allowed to band together and create a labor monopoly. I don't think unions should be legal, period. Teacher's unions are uniquely damaging however as governments can't just go out of business the way corporations can.

Don't delude yourself into believing that this is about removing bad teachers. Nothing in the proposals is doing anything to improve education. It's just trying to kill unions as if that a magic fix. It's the same as TMM's belief that giving more authority to state governments will magically fix all financial problems.

Making it possible for the government to make pay cuts may not be entirely about removing bad teachers. But the idea that people should never have to face a pay cut and never have to be fired and never have to have their pension benefits reduced is insane. Completely insane. And while it won't fix everything, it certainly is a start.

And its purpose is twofold: I'm sure Walker and the other Republicans would agree with Michelle Rhee's belief that teacher unions and the policies they support are a barrier to improving schools.

It's illegal but it's happening.

Ronald Reagan fired all the air traffic controllers when they went on strike. I suppose I wouldn't mind if Walker did something similar.

Non-sequiturs aside, what evidence do you have that these are in fact their goals. You are saying that their goal is to hire teachers that can't be hired elsewhere. That's a pretty bold statement. So I assumed that you must have some evidence to back it up.

If there are any that do not at some level believe this to be true then the best you can say is that this is what they achieve.

[MRT144]

I don't. Why are you? I don't think anyone should be allowed to band together and create a labor monopoly. I don't think unions should be legal, period. Teacher's unions are uniquely damaging however as governments can't just go out of business the way corporations can.

Ronald Reagan fired all the air traffic controllers when they went on strike. I suppose I wouldn't mind if Walker did something similar.

Or the government can just not respect the strike. Actually, not going out of business gives the govt leverage in this case. They can hire replacement teachers at their leisure while the union teachers scramble to find income and then eventually concede. The govt will persist with or without teachers, not vice versa.

[Donegeal]

They're not striking, they are collectively calling in sick to work. The Superintendants are requiring teachers calling in sick to have medical excuses.

[MRT144]

Why wont school districts fund mandatory CPEs for teachers?

[giblets]

Obama says we need more teachers in this country and we need more talented people to become teachers. I can see one easy way to encourage people to become teachers, and Walker has figured it out as well.

Reducing the benefits they receive will encourage people to become teachers?

[giblets]

It's also worth noting that Wisconsin faces a multi-billion ($3.6, is it?) dollar budget deficit, and that the alternative to this is just laying off thousands of public workers.

False dichotomy.

[MRT144]

Reducing the benefits they receive will encourage people to become teachers?

What is the minimum HC would be willing to accept to become a K-12 Science teacher in an inner city Milwaukee school?

Hell, what is the minimum amount any anti union person would be willing to accept for that position?

Keep in mind that there are roughly 60k teachers in Wisconsin.

[David Floyd]

False dichotomy.

Not really. I also noted in my post that raising taxes was another alternative, likely the only other "reasonable" one. If the choice is a)raising taxes, b)firing 6000 workers, or c)retaining all workers, not raising taxes, and simply forcing public sector workers to pay into their health and pension plans at a level close to the private sector and remove their ability to, through CBA, hold the state hostage, then the choice seems clear.

[MRT144]

Not really. I also noted in my post that raising taxes was another alternative, likely the only other "reasonable" one. If the choice is a)raising taxes, b)firing 6000 workers, or c)retaining all workers, not raising taxes, and simply forcing public sector workers to pay into their health and pension plans at a level close to the private sector and remove their ability to, through CBA, hold the state hostage, then the choice seems clear.

Raise taxes.

[Hauldren Collider]

Because public sector workers deserve all the bacon. After all, it's so hard working in a white collar job when you can't be fired. What a poor oppressed group of people. Excuse me, I need a hankerchief.

[Kuciwalker]

.

[MRT144]

Because public sector workers deserve all the bacon. After all, it's so hard working in a white collar job when you can't be fired. What a poor oppressed group of people. Excuse me, I need a hankerchief.

What do you think the average salary of a teacher should be? What would you be willing to work for?

[David Floyd]

So taxes should be raised to allow public sector workers - in other words, workers who work for the people of Wisconsin - to continue to get their sweet heart deals around benefits, job security, and CBA? What a joke.

[David Floyd]

What do you think the average salary of a teacher should be?

Let's start by agreeing that this should be partially determined by performance in the classroom, eh?

[MRT144]

Let's start by agreeing that this should be partially determined by performance in the classroom, eh?

Sure. What should the average be aggregate after accounting for performance?