No thread about the new WIKILEAKS United States diplomatic cables leak?

[DanS]

I can just imagine Rufus writing that Dagestan cable. Pure gold...

Still, he was much the worse for wear by evening's end. At one point we caught up with him dancing with two scantily clad Russian women who looked far from home.

[Asher]

So you think that all our diplomats should be required to publicly publish their reports? This is nonsensical.

I realize that accusations of authoritarianism are your favorite troll, but trolls are better when they aren't patently ridiculous.

It's not a troll, it's true.

You seem to forget that the basic tenet of a good government is one that serves its people. The government should be held responsible for its actions, and should report its actions to its people.

Why the **** would it make sense for people to elect governments that then do **** no one knows about? You've got this all backwards.

[Asher]

The President isn't the boss, the taxpayer is.

If you're looking to someone for authority on the matter, it's everyone on this site that pays American taxes.

[Asher]

First interesting Canada-related leak.

Turns out CSIS hates the fact that Canada doesn't let the government run amok violating people's rights in the name of "fighting terror" like they do in the US.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/wikileaks-csis-vigorously-harassing-hezbollah-members/article1818071/

WikiLeaks: CSIS 'vigorously harassing' Hezbollah members

Canada’s spies have developed an intelligence channel into Iran, have been ‘vigorously harassing’ Hezbollah operatives inside Canada, and had also foreseen – but could not prevent – a jailbreak of Taliban prisoners in Afghanistan, according to a new WikiLeaks disclosure.

Yet even as Canadian Intelligence Security Service agents were training their eyes and ears outward, at home, the spy service loudly lamented its operations being were being increasingly hamstrung by an “Alice in Wonderland” Canadian court system.

These are extraordinary disclosures that amount to a rare insight into how CSIS gathers intelligence, assesses threats, and feels about the world. The irony is that CSIS, which goes to the wall to prevent leaks of American intelligence, has had its secrets revealed through a dump of more than 250,000 U.S diplomatic cables.

Specific CSIS operations are almost never revealed to the public, yet the WikiLeaks disclosure highlights many. These disclosures could imperil the methods and sources that Canada's spy service has clandestinely cultivated to protect national security.

A CSIS spokeswoman on Monday refused to comment on the leaks. But any fissures that result from the Canadian disclosures will be added to the massive diplomatic fallout that the United States is trying to contain amid this week's ongoing release of the unvarnished assessments of U.S. diplomats stationed around the world.

Canada's spy service has offered many muted criticisms of judges and Canadian public opinion before, but in private conversations the spymasters seem to veer toward scathing. Past CSIS director Jim Judd was blunt with an American diplomat, Eliot Cohen, who logged one conversation in a summer, 2008 cable.

“Director Judd ascribed an ‘Alice in Wonderland’ worldview to Canadians and their courts, whose judges have tied CSIS ‘in knots,’ making it ever more difficult to detect and prevent terror attacks in Canada and abroad,” it says. “The situation, he commented, left government security agencies on the defensive and losing public support for their effort to protect Canada and its allies.”

Mr. Judd, who retired in 2009, is also quoted in the cable as saying that “CSIS was increasingly distracted from its mission by legal challenges that could endanger foreign intelligence-sharing with Canadian agencies.”

Even so, he said he viewed Prime Minister Stephen Harper's government as a key CSIS ally, according to the cable.

The latest batch of WikiLeaks disclosures yield unprecedented operational insights:

* CSIS agreed to open a channel to Iran's intelligence service because the spy service was “very, very worried” about Iran. CSIS was talking to Tehran’s Ministry of Intelligence and Security to share information but “we have not figured out what they are up to,” Mr. Judd said, questioning the Iranian's motivations.

* CSIS had been “vigorously harassing” known Hezbollah members in Canada,” although its assessment was that no attack was “in the offing.”

* CSIS claimed to have foreseen a massive jailbreak in Kandahar that freed dozens of Taliban operatives, but had been unable to pinpoint the timing of the attack that sprang the prison gates.

* CSIS was concerned about the then-impending court-ordered release of a video showing CSIS agents interviewing teenage terrorism suspect Omar Khadr at the U.S. prison in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. (The Globe and Mail and other media fought in court for the release of these recordings.) The cable says that Mr. Judd “observed that the images would no doubt trigger ‘knee-jerk anti-Americanism’ and ‘paroxysms of moral outrage, a Canadian specialty’ ” but that Prime Minister Stephen Harper's government would be immune to the outcry. “He predicted that PM Harper's government would nonetheless continue to resist this pressure,” the cable says.

[Barnabas]

The Dagestani wedding diplomat should become a novelist

Or short stories writer

[Hauldren Collider]

Oh boy, now Asher joins in with his OMFG AMERICA IS HITLER schtick again. This certainly hasn't gotten old.

For christ's sake Asher, the idea that government can't keep any secrets is patently absurd. All warfare is based on deception. Good luck deceiving anyone when you post your troop movements on Facebook.

I'd be quite concerned if the police department told criminals ahead of time that they are going to be arrested. How would you arrest criminals if they can just escape after you tell them you're coming?

I wonder how we would be able to negotiate treaties or agreements with other countries when all our bargaining options are made public knowledge. I can imagine the haggling would become quite a bit more difficult for us.

I'm rather pleased with the United States' significant technological superiority over other countries' militaries. But if we publicized all the technical data on the B-2, how exactly would we keep other countries from copying our technology?

You know, the President is a rather big target for assassination. I bet he would be a lot harder to protect if we publicized his entire security plan.

I was thinking, would it possibly be a bad thing if we just publicized the arming codes for all our nuclear warheads? Or the passwords to our computer systems? Sounds iffy.

Now admit that your assertion that government needs to be completely transparent is one of the most ****ing stupid things you've ever said.

[giblets]

Oh boy, now Asher joins in with his OMFG AMERICA IS HITLER schtick again. This certainly hasn't gotten old.

For christ's sake Asher, the idea that government can't keep any secrets is patently absurd. All warfare is based on deception. Good luck deceiving anyone when you post your troop movements on Facebook.

I'd be quite concerned if the police department told criminals ahead of time that they are going to be arrested. How would you arrest criminals if they can just escape after you tell them you're coming?

I wonder how we would be able to negotiate treaties or agreements with other countries when all our bargaining options are made public knowledge. I can imagine the haggling would become quite a bit more difficult for us.

I'm rather pleased with the United States' significant technological superiority over other countries' militaries. But if we publicized all the technical data on the B-2, how exactly would we keep other countries from copying our technology?

You know, the President is a rather big target for assassination. I bet he would be a lot harder to protect if we publicized his entire security plan.

I was thinking, would it possibly be a bad thing if we just publicized the arming codes for all our nuclear warheads? Or the passwords to our computer systems? Sounds iffy.

Now admit that your assertion that government needs to be completely transparent is one of the most ****ing stupid things you've ever said.

Nice strawman. I like how you added the modifier "completely" to "transparent".

[Asher]

Oh boy, now Asher joins in with his OMFG AMERICA IS HITLER schtick again. This certainly hasn't gotten old.

Where did I say that?

For christ's sake Asher, the idea that government can't keep any secrets is patently absurd. All warfare is based on deception.

So your answer is to create more deception?

Good luck deceiving anyone when you post your troop movements on Facebook.

Why are your troops not on home soil defending your country? Then you don't need to post about your troop movements on facebook, and they get to see their families.

I'd be quite concerned if the police department told criminals ahead of time that they are going to be arrested. How would you arrest criminals if they can just escape after you tell them you're coming?

This is pretty stupid, even for you.

Criminals are usually arrested as soon as possible after an arrest warrant is issued. Arrest warrants should be acted upon immediately and be matters of public record.

I wonder how we would be able to negotiate treaties or agreements with other countries when all our bargaining options are made public knowledge. I can imagine the haggling would become quite a bit more difficult for us.

It wouldn't kill you to negotiate in good faith.

I'm rather pleased with the United States' significant technological superiority over other countries' militaries. But if we publicized all the technical data on the B-2, how exactly would we keep other countries from copying our technology?

All the technology in the world can't prevent Akbar from storing explosives up his ass or from knowing ju-jitsu and taking over a plane and crashing it into office towers.

America needs to wake up and realize what modern war looks like. And where it comes from. Hint: Deception is one major reason.

The fact that the US "secretly" ****s with so many countries is precisely why you're a massive terrorist target.

[Hauldren Collider]

Okay Asher, you're hopeless.


If anyone else wants to explain to this software engineer turned armchair political scientist how the real world works, feel free.

[Asher]

Okay Asher, you're hopeless.


If anyone else wants to explain to this software engineer turned armchair political scientist how the real world works, feel free.

Being lectured by an incredibly sheltered 17 year old highschool student, especially with that comment, really makes my day.

[Asher]

For what it's worth, there's a huge difference between keeping proprietary knowledge secret (like technology) and ****ing with countries and lying about it.

If government agents are covertly acting to affect Americans' lives, their actions ought to be public.

[Egbert]

I am in agreement with HC's reasons why a government must keep certain things confidential. I can particularly relate to the bit about keeping bargaining positions under wraps. (I would love to know exactly how much the other dudes will pay when negotiating a contract).

OTH Governments seem to like "in commercial confidence" clauses to keep contracts secret from the voters. Or am I being a tad cynical?

HC I can see where Asher is coming from. The "need for secrecy" can be abused by guvmint to disinform the public. (Therefore it almost certainly will be).

[Hauldren Collider]

Says the man who is constantly talking about how we just never hear about those Canadian saboteurs because they're so good.

xpost

[Elok]

Xpost so gigantic it makes no sense. Plus it was stupid because it's late at night. Carry on.

[Hauldren Collider]

HC I can see where Asher is coming from. The "need for secrecy" can be abused by guvmint to disinform the public. (Therefore it almost certainly will be).

Of course, and there are plenty of instances in American history where the government has gone too far. But the mere existence of war secrets and diplomatic secrets and other state secrets should not be controversial.