No pay, no spray: Firefighters let home burn

[Dinner]

They don't live in the city which was providing the service. Residents of the city do not have to pay a charge.

I said county not city. In California the county is required to provide services such as fire and police if you live in an unincorporated area.

[Boris Godunov]

Why would anyone ever pay the fee before hand?

Just make the immediate on-site fee much steeper, and there's the incentive. $75 annual, $300 on site. Certainly there are things that could be done besides standing by while a family's home burns. Kids shouldn't lose all they have because their parents didn't pay a $75 fee.

What if there were pets/people inside? Would the firefighters have stood by then?

The way I see it, this situation is no different than a doctor refusing to treat an ER patient because he doesn't have insurance.

The thing about this story is that the neighbor did suffer fire damage to his property that would have been avoided had they put out the initial fire. If I were him, I'd be almost as mad as the neighbor who lost his house.

[DinoDoc]

Is the pool big enough to justify allowing rural county residents to free ride off the city's resources if people are allowed to pay on the spot?

[Wiglaf]

Who would ever pay the annual fee if you could pay on the spot? Even if you had to pay $1,000 on the spot? Do you people really call the fire department that much? I have requested urgent fire services twice in my whole life, once because I set fire to my router and the other time because I lit candles during a storm and the third time because I lost my dog. That is on the high end. No one calls that much.

Kids shouldn't lose all they have because their parents didn't pay a $75 fee.

Oh get laid. This isn't Candyland. This is real world.

[DinoDoc]

...exactly my point...

Example is the school of mankind and he will learn from no other.

[Ben Kenobi]

I still can't get over how backwards and ****ed up the US is...

I grew up in a rural area. You buy fire insurance to cover your house. No fire service unless you paid a fee to run the firehall which was all volunteer. Would they have let your house burn down? no. But you'd better believe that residents paid for the service.

[giblets]

I grew up in a rural area. You buy fire insurance to cover your house. No fire service unless you paid a fee to run the firehall which was all volunteer. Would they have let your house burn down? no. But you'd better believe that residents paid for the service.

That seems to negate the whole "let the houses burn if they forget to pay so people will have an incentive to pay" thing.

[Hauldren Collider]

Who are you talking to?

You. You seem to support the hypothesis that the American Dream is about pushing down others to climb to the top.

Somebody explain:

a. why failing to pay the fire company and subsequently having your house burn down is not a fair outcome (regardless of whether there are better systems for financing public fire departments)
b. how a. can be construed to demonstrate that the American Dream is zero-sum?

[Asher]

why failing to pay the fire company and subsequently having your house burn down is not a fair outcome

Please explain why it's fair to have people capable of putting out a fire sit there and watch it burn down somebody's home.

And I don't mean fair as in the Adam Smith sense of fairness.

I mean fairness in the sense of morality, humanity, and civilized people.

[Asher]

The whole argument that if they saved the guy's house, people would stop paying the $75 and therefore the fire department would have to cease to exist is insufferably stupid.

If the fire department ever came close to having to stop existing because the number of people not paying got too high, I think it's quite obvious most people would start paying or otherwise contribute to keeping the department operational.

[Hauldren Collider]

Please explain why it's fair to have people capable of putting out a fire sit there and watch it burn down somebody's home.

And I don't mean fair as in the Adam Smith sense of fairness.

I mean fairness in the sense of morality, humanity, and civilized people.

Because he was an idiot and didn't pay the fire company, despite knowing the cost, the risk, and the price?

If people don't pay for the fire company, the fire company becomes insolvent. If the fire company becomes insolvent, then there's no one to put out fires. All because not helping out the free riders is "unfair".

xpost

[Asher]

Because he was an idiot and didn't pay the fire company, despite knowing the cost, the risk, and the price?

"Because he was an idiot" is not an assessment of fairness.

And I'm not sure where it's made clear he knows the cost, risk, and price. How many people know these things? I'm not sure how the system is set up there, but I'm not going to pretend to. I think it's folly to make that assumption.

If people don't pay for the fire company, the fire company becomes insolvent. If the fire company becomes insolvent, then there's no one to put out fires. All because not helping out the free riders is "unfair".

See my last post for why this statement is idiotic.

[giblets]

You. You seem to support the hypothesis that the American Dream is about pushing down others to climb to the top.

Somebody explain:

a. why failing to pay the fire company and subsequently having your house burn down is not a fair outcome (regardless of whether there are better systems for financing public fire departments)
b. how a. can be construed to demonstrate that the American Dream is zero-sum?

firefighters in an American county letting someone's house burn -> America is a "heartless country" -> some Americans let others suffer to improve their bottom line

[Hauldren Collider]

The whole argument that if they saved the guy's house, people would stop paying the $75 and therefore the fire department would have to cease to exist is insufferably stupid.

If the fire department ever came close to having to stop existing because the number of people not paying got too high, I think it's quite obvious most people would start paying or otherwise contribute to keeping the department operational.

Hey, I never said I agreed with the way they run their fire department. This is something that varies by state--as Oerdin mentioned, you can't do it this way in California, and I don't think it works that way in Virginia either.

What are decisions without consequences? He made his choice and he faced the consequences. He decided not to pay the fire department and his house burned down. I fail to see how the fact that it is possible to make critically stupid decisions in America means the American dream is a fraud.

Go ***** about the Tennessee dream or something.

[Hauldren Collider]

firefighters in an American county letting someone's house burn -> America is a "heartless country" -> some Americans let others suffer to improve their bottom line

How does 3 follow 2?