Christianity ruins families.

[Ben Kenobi]

@ gribbler

How is that relevant?

more right

Implies degrees.

[Ben Kenobi]

Please see Kid's POV on converts...

I think he's wrong about this.

So now you are a mind reader... and yeah, I do think Catholics are messed up when it comes to homosexuality.

Then you don't believe that all religions are equal, or that some things are not objectively true, and that some religions are more right than others.

So lets get rid of that notion altogether. You do believe that some religions have it right, and some have it wrong, you just disagree on the content of what is right and what is wrong.

[Ming]

Oh you wanted proof? I figured that you just wanted people to say why they thought christianity was the best religion. Seriously Ming, are you just a joke now or what?

Actually, anybodies that claims one religion is better than another (not counting silly cults) is a joke. There is NO PROOF that one is the true religion or that one is better than any other. It comes down to faith. Believe what you want, but don't expect others to simply agree based ONLY on your faith.

If people want to say why it is their OPINION that christianity is the best, fine by me... but they can't prove it. And I'm sure Jews, and other religious people can say why their religions are the best... again, simply and ONLY OPINION.

[Kidlicious]

Actually, anybodies that claims one religion is better than another (not counting silly cults) is a joke. There is NO PROOF that one is the true religion or that one is better than any other. It comes down to faith. Believe what you want, but don't expect others to simply agree based ONLY on your faith.

If people want to say why it is their OPINION that christianity is the best, fine by me... but they can't prove it. And I'm sure Jews, and other religious people can say why their religions are the best... again, simply and ONLY OPINION.

Ok they can't prove it. So what? I don't think anyone was claiming to be able to prove anything.

[Ben Kenobi]

No reason to doubt Helena?

Not if you are a Christian.

Finding a piece of wood 3 centuries after the crucifixion?

That's not all that exceptional wrt to archaeology.

why would the Romans even have kept just another cross?

The Christians preserved it.

How would she know it's the real cross? There are a zillion reasons to doubt it.

If you had read her account (or Eusebius's retelling of her account), she had three crosses to choose from. One of them healed the sick, the others did not.

I'm sure you can find plenty of reasons to doubt the account, but if you believe that miracles can happen, then you don't really have a leg to stand on. The account is well-attested by a contemporary.

[Ming]

I think he's wrong about this.

Yep... even christians can't agree in this arguement

Then you don't believe that all religions are equal, or that some things are not objectively true, and that some religions are more right than others.

You are putting words in my mouth... IMHO, ALL religions are right on some things, and wrong on others... pretty equal. But again, simply an opinion.

When you have the catholic church with a hypicritcal POV on birth control, covering up priests raping children, selling annullments and other such crap, it's really hard to take the institution seriously... the teachings are one thing, the actual institution should be abolished and started again based on Jesus's teachings, and not silly interpretations that have been added over the years by greedy and corrupt clergy.

[giblets]

@ gribbler

How is that relevant?

more right

Implies degrees.

You shouldn't refer to "Episcopalians" as a whole when talking about homosexuality because there's a lot of diversity in opinion. I don't care what dishonest spin you try to employ after you're called out for making an unwarranted generalization.

[Ben Kenobi]

I don't think anyone was claiming to be able to prove anything.

Wow, ok. Christians do claim that their faith is objectively true through the historical accounts of the death and resurrection of Christ. They believe that the bible is true, and that archaeology will bear out eventually to confirm what happened.

[Ben Kenobi]

You shouldn't refer to "Episcopalians" as a whole when talking about homosexuality because there's a lot of diversity in opinion. I don't care what dishonest spin you try to employ after you're called out for making an unwarranted generalization.

How is it an unwarranted generalization to say that the religion which explicitly blesses openly homosexual bishops is more accepting of homosexuality than Catholicism?

[Ming]

Ok they can't prove it. So what? I don't think anyone was claiming to be able to prove anything.

I'm not the one claiming my religion is the best or the one true one. I don't look down my nose at those that believe differently. I don't think they are all going to burn in hell. I leave the judging to god.

But again, any strong believer in any real religion will think theirs is the best and one true relgiion... so there are plenty of people that disagree with your POV of God. And they are as equally RIGHT as you are.

[Kidlicious]

When you have the catholic church with a hypicritcal POV on birth control, covering up priests raping children, selling annullments and other such crap, it's really hard to take the institution seriously... the teachings are one thing, the actual institution should be abolished and started again based on Jesus's teachings, and not silly interpretations that have been added over the years by greedy and corrupt clergy.

"who are you to criticise someone elses servent." In other words if you believe in Jesus then what are you judging Catholics. Let God judge them.

[Ming]

How is it an unwarranted generalization to say that the religion which explicitly blesses openly homosexual bishops is more accepting of homosexuality than Catholicism?

A good reason to think the Episcopalians are better than Catholics

[Ben Kenobi]

A good reason to think the Episcopalians are better than Catholics

Thank you. I wish gribbler would come out and admit the same.

[Ming]

"who are you to criticise someone elses servent." In other words if you believe in Jesus then what are you judging Catholics. Let God judge them.

Who's judging catholics? I'm just judging a morally corrupt institution.
And you should follow Jesus's words as well, and stop judging people.

Aren't you the one that has started a thread judging other people simply on the basis of them following a contract?

[giblets]

Thank you. I wish gribbler would come out and admit the same.

What, that they're better than Catholics? I don't have any trouble admitting that.