Christianity ruins families.

[Ben Kenobi]

Tradition? They've been doing it since the beginning of their faith? What do you have against tradition?

Nothing. Just if you argue that Islam has always worshipped a rock, then you can see why I'd call them rock worshippers.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Indeed. They rededicated a pagan idol, similar to Christians taking over the Christmas Tree (of course some denominations are appauled at the ursurpation of pagan rituals, aka syncretism, and reject the Christmas Tree symbolism).

[giblets]

Which is why they have a shrine dedicated to the rock. Right, I see that.

Why don't they get rid of the idol?

Tradition? They've been doing it since the beginning of their faith? What do you have against tradition?

[Ben Kenobi]

That's a petty distinction. They're worshiping God, not the rock.

Which is why they have a shrine dedicated to the rock. Right, I see that.

Why don't they get rid of the idol?

[giblets]

Have you seen the Shrine in the Kaaba? They bow to the rock. We don't bow to the Saints in heaven. We might light a candle. That's about it.

You're just being petty. They're worshiping God, not the rock.

[Ben Kenobi]

Why not stop praying to things that aren't God, like saints? Why is it bad to pray to a rock while worshiping God? Why can't you see the irony of a Catholic failing to see a distinction between prayer and worship?

Have you seen the Shrine in the Kaaba? They bow to the rock. We don't bow to the Saints in heaven. We might light a candle. That's about it.

[Ben Kenobi]

One cannot rededicate something pagan as a House of Worship?

Well sure, but the 'Blue mosque' doesn't keep their tapestries, do they?

Rededicate, sure, but you get rid of the shrine to the meteorite.

[giblets]

Ok. That makes no sense at all. Why not get rid of the rock altogether?

Why not stop praying to all things that aren't God, like saints? Why is it bad to pray to a rock while worshiping God? Why can't you see the irony of a Catholic failing to see a distinction between prayer and worship?

[Ben Kenobi]

Also it is believed that the rock was rebuilt by Abraham and Ishmail (and originally built by Adam as the first building on Earth).

I've seen arguments that it's actually a Hindu temple from the Vedic period.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Ok. That makes no sense at all. Why not get rid of the rock altogether?

One cannot rededicate something pagan as a House of Worship?

Also it is believed that the rock was rebuilt by Abraham and Ishmail (and originally built by Adam as the first building on Earth).

[Ben Kenobi]

Why worship little beads?

Right, because we require Christians to travel all over the world to bow before a bunch of little beads.

You don't even need the beads to say a rosary. It just helps you keep count.

[Ben Kenobi]

They aren't believing that the rock is God. They are honoring when Muhammed smashed all the idols of the pagan relgions of Arabia in the rock (and reclaimed it for Allah) and treat it like a holy object.

Ok. That makes no sense at all. Why not get rid of the rock altogether?

[Imran Siddiqui]

Has it ever occured to the Christians here that actually Islam is the religion you should be believing in and you've been wasting your time believing in the wrong God? I bet Allah has a special place in hell for people who jump ship to other religions Immy...

Well, considering that Muslims consider Christians to be "people of the Book" and therefore saved (though Islam requires good works as well), if the Muslim God is the actual deity, I'm pretty safe .

They worship a rock. Why would I believe in a rock, when I can believe in the living God?

Huh? They aren't believing that the rock is God. They are honoring when Muhammed smashed all the idols of the pagan relgions of Arabia in the rock (and reclaimed it for Allah) and treat it like a holy object.

[Jon Miller]

Some of that is translation/etc differences.

JM

[giblets]

It is a very open question in the Christian community actually, and many apostolic fathers did not believe in hell.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annihilationism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_reconciliation

The second was quite popular historically.

JM

Interesting. The New Testament has passages that mention eternal suffering so I kind of figured that was what Christians believed.