Christianity ruins families.

[Ben Kenobi]

Elok:

You give obviously false, outdated or biased sources to back up your claims and even then fib about what they establish, make extravagant and often-ludicrous claims about all sorts of topics, ignore arguments to the contrary (sometimes digging through 500-word post for a few lines you can respond to), repeat arguments debunked in previous threads, distort your opponents' positions without shame, and play martyr when called out on any of it.

Breathe.

Anything else?

[Jon Miller]

I don't care about "tolerant," that's Rah's bag. I'm dismayed by the lack of intellectual honesty. You give obviously false, outdated or biased sources to back up your claims and even then fib about what they establish, make extravagant and often-ludicrous claims about all sorts of topics, ignore arguments to the contrary (sometimes digging through 500-word post for a few lines you can respond to), repeat arguments debunked in previous threads, distort your opponents' positions without shame, and play martyr when called out on any of it.

Which is why I generally don't bother arguing with you any more.

This is a bigger issue.

JM

[Ben Kenobi]

If Elok's done, I'm going to respond to his points.

Let's be clear here. I'm not arguing about anything other than my position on homosexuality here. Arguments about the kitchen sink are not relevant to this issue. It's a non sequitor.

You give obviously false, outdated or biased sources

Fine. Do you have a list of approved sources on the topic of homosexuality that meet with your approval?

I believe that all sources have bias. The problem is not to find an unbiased source, but whether the claims in them are true or false.

make extravagant and often-ludicrous claims

About homosexuality? What is extravagant about the claim that homosexuality is bad for your mental and physical health? Why does it matter if a claim is ludicrious if true?

ignore arguments to the contrary

There is one of me and many of you. If I have missed an argument of yours, I apologise. Oftentimes I get ganged up on, and I have to go toe to toe with folks who have quite strong opinions on this issue.

repeat arguments debunked in previous threads,

WRT homosexuality, which arguments do you consider debunked that I can no longer make.

distort your opponents' positions without shame

Well if I've distorted your positions in this thread, please show me.

[Hauldren Collider]

BK, if you said that you thought male homosexuality was bad once a year, or once a month, a lot less people would be considering you intolerant.

There are people who are not in favor of gay marriage and aren't intolerant (I think the tolerance argument for gay marriage is terrible).

JM

QFT, it annoys me when people insist that it is homophobic to disapprove of gay marriage.

Ben still sucks though.

[Ming]

Hey Ben... Did you know that being a Catholic woman is bad for their health. Studies at abortion clinics have proven that the highest percent of woman having abortion are Catholic (probably has something to do with their stand on birth control.) And since you have stated in the past that abortions cause serious mental problems, it stands to reason that being a catholic and being a woman is a bad thing and not healthy. So using your own twisted logic, Catholics shouldn't have relationships or get married, since its less healthy for them.

Catholic relationships are just simply more unhealthy... Maybe there should be some laws against it, you know, to protect them from themselves.

[Ben Kenobi]

Hey Ben... Did you know that being a Catholic woman is bad for their health. Studies at abortion clinics have proven that the highest percent of woman having abortion are Catholic

Wouldn't surprise me as there are more catholics than any other denomination.

(probably has something to do with their stand on birth control.)

and premarital sex I would presume.

And since you have stated in the past that abortions cause serious mental problems, it stands to reason that being a catholic and being a woman is a bad thing and not healthy.

Your premise would only be true if Catholic women, as a proportion of the population were more likely than any other to have an abortion. Unlike with gay men, they aren't 25 times as likely to contract a potentially fatal disease.

So using your own twisted logic, Catholics shouldn't have relationships or get married, since its less healthy for them.

They should follow church teachings. if you are arguing that abortion is unhealthy, then not having abortions means that they will be healthier than those that do.

Catholic relationships are just simply more unhealthy... Maybe there should be some laws against it, you know, to protect them from themselves.

Fully agree. Since these same problems are seen for non-Catholic women who have had abortions, abortion is the common denominator. We should pass laws banning abortion.

I'm so happy to see you coming around on this Ming!

[Ming]

Terrible logic on your part as usual... your whole anti gay rap is that it's more unhealthy because of their actions.
Well, the same is true for Catholic woman... their actions make them less healthy. Facts are facts. Both a gay lifestyle and a catholic lifestyle are both less healthy.

Using your logic, the common demoninator is sex... so are you saying we should pass laws banning all sex?

[Ben Kenobi]

Terrible logic on your part as usual... your whole anti gay rap is that it's more unhealthy because of their actions.

Well, the same is true for Catholic woman... their actions make them less healthy.

Only when they have an abortion. Catholic women who haven't had an abortion are no less healthier than anyone else.

Facts are facts. Both a gay lifestyle and a catholic lifestyle are both less healthy.

How is having an abortion a 'Catholic' lifestyle? Just the opposite. Women who have an abortion suffer health problems later on irrespective of their background.

Using your logic, the common demoninator is sex... so are you saying we should pass laws banning all sex?

No, the harmful action is the abortion. By my logic you would pass a law banning abortion.

[giblets]

There are people who are not in favor of gay marriage and aren't intolerant (I think the tolerance argument for gay marriage is terrible).

True, but some gay marriage opponents are obvious bigots. In which case there's nothing wrong with pointing it out.

[MrFun]

There are people who are not in favor of gay marriage and aren't intolerant
JM

I agree. Thankfully, there are others out there who are willing to listen to arguments in favor of equal rights and might change their opinion to some extent, after becoming better educated/informed.

[Hauldren Collider]

Stop talking to Ban already. He's not going to change his mind.

Question though. Has he always been this bad? He's been on the forum for like 10 years.

[Ming]

Only when they have an abortion. Catholic women who haven't had an abortion are no less healthier than anyone else.

Gee... gay people who practice safe sex and have good relationships are no less healthy than anyone else... So what's your point?

How is having an abortion a 'Catholic' lifestyle? Just the opposite. Women who have an abortion suffer health problems later on irrespective of their background.

They are more prone to have a abortion because of the Church's silly views of birth control. So yes, it is part of the lifestyle. People who practice unsafe sex have higher risks irrespective of their background, both straights and gays.

No, the harmful action is the abortion. By my logic you would pass a law banning abortion.

No... the harmful action is the sex, so usuing your logic, sex should be banned.


The catholic lifestyle is a real killer... we need to pass laws against it based on your views since it is less healthy for woman. Using your own logic... it's a sword that cuts both ways Ben.

So next time you want to bring up how gays are at higher risk, remember catholic woman, At least gays are only risking themselves and their partners... catholic woman are killing innocent babies and living unhealthy lives. Which is worse?

[Ben Kenobi]

Gee... gay people who practice safe sex and have good relationships are no less healthy than anyone else... So what's your point?

So you'd have sex with an HIV+ woman provided she gave you a condom first?

They are more prone to have a abortion because of the Church's silly views of birth control.

Umm, no. The people who practice what the church teaches wrt contraception aren't going to be getting abortions.

It's the people who disagree that do.

So yes, it is part of the lifestyle. People who practice unsafe sex have higher risks irrespective of their background, both straights and gays.

True. But gay men have a far higher risk. All else being equal.

No... the harmful action is the sex, so usuing your logic, sex should be banned.

You can have sex without having an abortion, Ming.

The catholic lifestyle is a real killer... we need to pass laws against it based on your views since it is less healthy for woman. Using your own logic... it's a sword that cuts both ways Ben.

Except for the fact that Catholic women who practice what the church teaches don't have abortions. So I guess it's only those Catholics who don't practice we need to be worried about.

So next time you want to bring up how gays are at higher risk, remember catholic woman

When Catholic women are 25x as likely to have an abortion, than any other subtype of woman, then we can talk.

At least gays are only risking themselves and their partners... catholic woman are killing innocent babies and living unhealthy lives. Which is worse?

That's a good question. I'd say women who have an abortion are worse because they are killing their child.

[giblets]

There's no evidence that monogamous homosexual relationships are "unhealthy" so I have no idea why Ben chooses to ***** about gay marriage.

[Ben Kenobi]

Define 'monogamous'