Christianity ruins families.

[dannubis]

Ok. That makes no sense at all. Why not get rid of the rock altogether?

Dude, you are the one belonging to a religion that whorships wooden crosses...

[dannubis]

Islam, as far as I know the religion, is about living good enough to please God. I do not trust myself to live that good.

Is Islam wrong? Well, I do not believe that anyone is good enough to live without causing harm to himself and others (and God).
Can I prove that? No. But there's no need for me to prove that. The main question is just a personal question: am I good enough myself? If I believe so, then I may want to skip the Jesus part and just prepare myself to face God al by myself.

I personally believe that muslims who fear Allah and his judgement because they know themselves, will be accepted by God. (=Allah.)
In fact they have the same faith as a christian.

When I was in Jerusalem I talked for about 1 hour with this muslim guy. I asked him about his faith and he told me about how he believed that two angels were on his shoulder writing down all his deeds. One wrote down the good stuff, the other one wrote down the bad stuff. Then when he had to face Allah, all the good and bad deeds would be compared and Allah would judge them.

I asked him if he feared that moment, to which he answered that he feared it a lot because he was defenitely not sure that he was good enough. He told me that muslims even pray for Muhammed because even Muhammed may not be good enough. (hence the '(pbuh)' phrase they always put behind his name.)
That's also the reason that fundamentalistic muslims kill themselves to become martyrs. It apparently is the only way to be sure that Allah will accept them. (according to their views).

He then asked me if I did not fear to meet God and be judged. I said that I did not because I believed that Jesus would be there, saying to God: "It's ok father, because I know him."
Then he asked me to ask Jesus to be there for him as well.

I'm just saying that to show that this guy and me weren't that much different. Of course visually our believes were a lot different. But in the core it's the same. We believe that both of us have to face God one day and he will judge our deeds, and both of us know it's not going to be good. The only difference is that I rely in Jesus while he didn't know about that. I don't believe that ignorance is a reason for God to cast him away.

Original sin is that man wanted to be god, judging on good and evil himselves. Undoing original sin is all about accepting that you're not able to be god, and accept his authority. It's not about believing that the right god exists.
That's imho the main question to all people: Do you believe that you yourself are good enough to live good and finally improve yourself that much that you will not cause harm or unhappyness to yourself or others. Or do you believe that you're not good enough yourself to be the moral authority of your own life.

I believe that even an atheist who simply rationally can't believe there's a God, but still agrees that he would need one, will be accepted by God. I had such a co-worker. His father was a minister. He knew all about christianity, and simply stated: "I wish that it was true."
Personally I have a lot of troubles rationally to believe. There are many reasons to not believe, both from scientific reasons, and also from theological reasons. Yet I hope and wish and pray that it's all true anyway because I believe that I need someone like Jesus to die for my sins and be the perfect man, someone who will cover me when I meet God, if there's such a thing as a god.

Long story, I'm sorry

SUMMARY:

Religion advises you to to good things, not out of desire to do good but out of fear to look bad in front of the reverred diety...

Seems like a social construct to me...

[Elok]

Oh, I would dig up that Machiavelli quote about love and fear, but I'm just too lazy...for the record, I don't hate Islam or gays, don't believe in shunning, and wish this thread would go back to being about weddings.

[Darius871]

What you are describing is a problem with women not Christians.

This.

[Imran Siddiqui]

And so sorry to hear about your parents. How long has it been since you've talked to them?

You want to know when they brought this up? May 31. The day AFTER my 30th birthday. Great birthday present Mom & Dad. That was the last time I spoke to them, but they were pretty final about their opinion.

[Jon Miller]

I am sorry.

Often time can heal wounds.

JM

[Imran Siddiqui]

I think Imran more felt love for the chick and less Agape.

I hate to sound like that but I don't buy an atheist who already rejected what I frankly find to be a more reasonable religion (Islam), would go all Pentecostal Christian (I am aware he is non-denominational but he seemed to indicate the experience happened around Pentecostals. I apologize if I mis-interpreted).

Again, I hate to sound like that because Imran clearly believes in his heart but it just doesn't sound right to me.

I'm sure some people will think that. Frankly it doesn't bother me (well, it'd bother me somewhat after people really got to know me or saw me worship or something).

The reason I found Charismatic Christianity appealing (as opposed to Pentecostalism, as, you've noted, I said I'm non-denominational) is because of its embrace of emotion and personal relationships to God rather than simply trying to sit down and logic God out. That's not the way to do it. While God has given us logic, you can't just use that to reach Him. You have to reach out with your emotions; you have to let go and allow Him to come into your heart. You have to experience Him. The logic and reason is how you can ground your faith into the Living Word, but you can't just rely on one and forget the other (it is also why I respect the Sufis in Islam over the regular Sunnis and Sh'ia).

The problem is we try to fit a pre-modern Scripture into a modern context (most Christians try to do the same thing), where everything must be ordered and logical. The Word has far more emotion and mystical in it than how a lot of Christians and non-Christians tend see it (though props to the Orthodox Church, which has always embraced the mysticism of God).

[Jon Miller]

I think that is one of the central points Imran.

JM

[Ben Kenobi]

I want to see you PROVE Islam is wrong, Ben.

WTC, 9-11-2001. allahu akhbar

[Ben Kenobi]

He says he's an objectivist, but saying he doesn't agree with homosexuality doesn't make it fact that homosexuality is bad. It's completely subjective.

As for homosexuality, 50 percent of AIDS cases are from men having sex with other men. That's a fact. There is no better vector to get AIDS than homosexuality.

[Ben Kenobi]

Let's feed Ben poison and see if he really believes

Do not put God to the test, yadda yadda yadda.

[Ben Kenobi]

Dude, you are the one belonging to a religion that whorships wooden crosses...

Hmm? Catholics have a crucifix where Christ is affixed to the cross. So we worship Christ.

[MrFun]

Hmm? Catholics have a crucifix where Christ is affixed to the cross. So we worship Christ.

Not always. There are churches that simply have the cross without having any figure of Jesus Christ on it.


EDIT: Okay, you were only talking about Catholic churches.

[Princess Peach]

WTC, 9-11-2001. allahu akhbar

9/11 had nothing to do with their religion. It was corrupt people you ******. There are corrupt catholics too. For instance , Hitler was a Catholic.

As for homosexuality, 50 percent of AIDS cases are from men having sex with other men. That's a fact. There is no better vector to get AIDS than homosexuality.

So you are saying all the AIDS cases in third world countries are all caused by gay men? Thats funny since kids are born with it and, hmm, the men don't have the babies...This must mean women get it too, which means it occurs A LOT in straight couples. But of course, this is going to turn into something racial as soon as you read it and try to twist some ridiculous argument out of it.

[giblets]

WTC, 9-11-2001. allahu akhbar

This, among other things, is what make you a bigot.