Ships to Gaza incident

[Sirotnikov]

Israel's so-called pro Hamas terrorists: Gaza Freedom flotilla carried world-renowned names and veteran activists Author Henning Mankell and Nobel peace laureate Mairead Corrigan-Maguire among more than 600 passengers...

I was at the Hay Festival on Saturday where Henning Mankell was due to talk via a live link. This was a peaceful mission designed to highlight Israel's barbaric blockade of Gaza - not some terrorist sponsored mission of war as the Israelis and nutters like Oerdin would have us believe...

What ever brought those noble people to share a ship with these people:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3L7OV414Kk (a day or two before)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6Xm8Irz-so (during the attack)

No doubt in my mind it weren't the nobel laureates who caused the fire fight to enravel. It's a classic case of Hamas supporters taking cover behind others.
Are you really that daft that you deny the video evidence of a massive violent attack on the IDF commandos, that does not sit well with your theory?

[Kitschum]

For the record, Mankell was not on the Mavi Marmara. He was on one of the other ships. I don't know about the Nobel laureate.

[Wezil]

Regardless of what happened on the deck of the ship, the longer-term consequences for Israel could be dire. The very blockade against Gaza that Israel sought to uphold could now be undone by its own heavy-handed action. And a national policy of relentlessly confronting Hamas, the Islamic rulers of the Gaza Strip, may lose its credibility. At the very least, Israel has become more isolated than at any time in recent history, an isolation that may undermine global efforts to bring its arch-foe, Iran, to heel over its nuclear ambitions.

The speed and intensity with which governments around the world condemned the Israeli behaviour appear unprecedented. The condemnation came from traditional enemies of the Jewish state, and from its closest friends. No matter that Israeli spokesman after spokesman argued that some of the activists were lying in wait to ambush the commandos, and attempted to lay the blame for the deadly violence at the feet of the flotilla organizers. “No one is buying it,” said Ezzedine Choukri Fishere, a former Egyptian diplomat who spent several years in Israel.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/israels-status-slips-as-governments-around-world-condemn-raid/article1587399/

Keep going guys. The Benaverse argument is working like a charm.

[Wezil]

I don't think Asher and I will have space in that room for all these people NYE.

[MOBIUS]

For the record, Mankell was not on the Mavi Marmara. He was on one of the other ships. I don't know about the Nobel laureate.

For the record, I didn't say he was...

[MOBIUS]

What ever brought those noble people to share a ship with these people:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3L7OV414Kk (a day or two before)

And clearly Israel granted that woman one of her wishes...

"Remember oh Jews, the army of Muhammad will return", about 20 guys chanting a song - so what, where's the bit about killing Jews? The reporter already said they're surrounded by Israeli ships at that point, so they're showing their defiance.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6Xm8Irz-so (during the attack)

No doubt in my mind it weren't the nobel laureates who caused the fire fight to enravel. It's a classic case of Hamas supporters taking cover behind others.
Are you really that daft that you deny the video evidence of a massive violent attack on the IDF commandos, that does not sit well with your theory?

They were merely defending themselves against an act of piracy as they were outside of Israeli waters - frankly I don't see the problem with their misguided* attempt to repel boarders...

You yourself have to admit that despite the initially shocking images of soldiers being mobbed by defenders none were killed, so Israeli arguments of lethal force being used by the defenders is obviously false! If the defenders wanted to kill someone - surely they certainly would have! Clearly the Israelis weren't so restrained in gunning down dozens of defenders and killing at least 10...

Why the **** didn't Israel just wait to intercept the flotilla during daylight in their waters with about a 100 cameras trained on the ships and go about what would have been a perfectly legal boarding mission - any unreasonable behaviour by the flotilla could then be used as propaganda!? What a bunch of amateurs...











* all you have to do is look at an Israeli cross-eyed and you get a bullet for your troubles.

[Hauldren Collider]

I think something is wrong with MOBIUS....

[Guardian]

Well, to sum things up from my point of view, my initial assumption was that this whole thing happened because both sides screwed up and that's now my official position here.

On one hand, there were clearly a number of people on those boats that generally did not match the description "aid workers" or "peace activists". Also, it is quite clear to me that the organizers of this flotilla had a political agenda, which was actually more important to them than simply delivering aid to Gaza - otherwise they could have used a variety of other channels to get the aid shipments in.

On the other hand, it is truly hard to understand how the IDF could screw up so badly, dropping their soldiers straight into the middle of that mess, effectively forcing them to fight their way out of it.

A disaster waiting to happen?
Perhaps, but even so, it wasn't actually happening until the soldiers were on the deck and there seems to have been a pretty good chance the IDF could have avoided it - or at least limited the extent of it - by planning their moves a little better.

[dannubis]

Siro, you can stop bull****ting. The commandos that were attacked should not have been there in the first place. Yes they had to shoot their way out of this ****ed up situation but still that does not remove responsability and accountability from the Israeli state (an alien concept to you i know but still).

I really hope they find lots of weapons concealed somewhere, because this is something you can't sweep under the rug otherwise.

[Kitschum]

For the record, I didn't say he was...

For the record, Sirotnikov did imply it by asking why they shared a ship with "these people".

[dannubis]

I think something is wrong with MOBIUS....

you don't think. that is the problem.

[Hauldren Collider]

1/10

[Kitschum]

10%

Did I do that right?

[C0ckney]

I think something is wrong with MOBIUS....

no there's something wrong with people who think that not only were the israeli actions here justified but that they should have gone further...

[Hauldren Collider]

If you'd been paying attention you would have noticed that Israel was in no way impeding the aid from actually getting to Gaza, so I'm not sure what kind of peace activist would be unwilling to unload at Ashdod. I don't think I ever said Israel should have gone further, I did say I think Israel should have done more to protect its soldiers (such as bringing along tear gas and riot gear).