13-year-olds climbing Everest

[MarCn]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/8615400.stm

Quick reminder- for every 5 climbers successfully summiting Everest, one climber dies. Statistically speaking, he'd be at less risk of death or maiming viagra uk if his parents let him try prostitution or heroin.

So should this sort of thing be saluted, or stopped?

I am a bit envious. Every time I buy acomplia get near Kilimanjaro I have been working on something else and not been able to set aside the time to make the climb.
But I am also excited for him. And curious to know what he will do after Everest.

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

Yes- I can understand that. I've been to Kilimanjaro myself, but even though no actual climbing experience is needed to tackle it, I'd still not take my kids up.

[Wezil]

Still no answer to my concern but I like Ozzy so I'll let it go. He's been tackled enough in this thread.

[OzzyKP]

When I was a kid, I wanted to climb Everest. At 5 years old I heard of the death of Mick Burke on there. When I was 11, I was glued to the news as realisation dawned that Pete Boardman and Joe Tasker were dying on the North-East ridge. I wanted to climb it.

It wasn't until I was 24 and Alison Hargreaves died on K2 that I changed my mind. You see, I was well aware of risk levels, but at one and the same time I had the magnificent hormone-driven impulse to do it anyway. I suspect nearly all ex-teenagers will recognise that. It wasn't until I lived longer, started understanding what my life was worth, and what pain and fear really felt like, that I reassessed it. Most of us do- stupid/criminal behaviour in adolescents is often grown out of.

I know it. Most of those in this thread know it. I can quote many professionals who know it- Lynn Ponton is a good one. Are you going to tell us that this is impossible and doesn't exist?

I really don't understand your point.

If your point was that climbing Everest is dangerous and no one should do it, then fine, I won't agree, but I'll accept that point. If your point is that we can't let young people take a risk, even if they fully understand and appreciate the risk and danger involved because regardless of how it turns out they may, at a later point in life, be too afraid to do it?

So your point is we should stop people from overcoming their future fears?

I may climb a mountain now, at 28, and then when I'm 50 I say "wow, I'd never do that now, I can't believe I did it." Does that mean I shouldn't be allowed to climb a mountain now?

All people who climb Everest are taking big risks. I'm sure some of them come to regret those decisions. All people regret decisions they've made in their past, at all ages. So?

[OzzyKP]

I'm guessing it was the "responsibilities" part he had the most trouble with.

I'm not positive but I doubt he advocates court for 7 year old shoplifters (or possibly even jail for the repeat offenders ).

How would that be different from now? 4 year olds get handcuffed and arrested in this country for silly things that no adult would ever be arrested for. In most cases young people get harsher penalties for actions that an adult either would never be penalized for or would get a slap on the wrist for.

Ever hear of an adult get locked up for 2 years for talking back to someone? Or for having slipping grades? Or for having friends that aren't approved of? Ever hear of an adult getting arrested for refusing to take a shower, or for drawing on a desk in erasable marker, or for being late to work?

Kids don't live in some care free fantasy land. If that's how people here think life is like for youth no wonder you are so hostile.

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

I really don't understand your point.

If your point was that climbing Everest is dangerous and no one should do it, then fine, I won't agree, but I'll accept that point. If your point is that we can't let young people take a risk, even if they fully understand and appreciate the risk and danger

It's that last point that's the problem. I've presented an example of someone who climbed Everest when young and now accepts that he wasn't mature enough to appreciate the risk.

Is he a liar? Is he deluded? Where's the wriggle room in your reasoning with that?

[OzzyKP]

Ozzy - We had a pickup truck when I was a kid that I always wanted to ride in the back of. My parents wouldn't let me as it was too dangerous. Where they wrong?

The trouble with most of what people here say is they make blanket statements that apply to millions of people without knowing those individuals. The person at the center of this story is a skilled climber and has tackled many mountains. He isn't a random 13 year old who thought it would be cool. He knows what he is doing, his parents know that he knows what he is doing and the appropriate precautions are being taken.

Having the ability to look at individuals as individuals and situations as particular situations without any bias or ageism is what I ask. Not making blanket judgments about someone based on nothing beyond their birthdate is what I ask.

So I answer your question in two ways:

1. If riding in the back of a pickup truck is illegal in your state (as it is in some states) then someone decided it is dangerous for all people (because no one is immune to falling out of a moving vehicle), and that is an acceptable reason for you not to do it.

2. I don't know your young self (or honestly even your current self very well) so assuming it is legal where you're at, I can't say if you were able to handle that danger and responsibility. Presumably your parents did know you. Assuming they made their decision on the basis of you as an individual and not you as an age, then yes, it is appropriate to say you can't ride in the back of the truck.

3. Finally, if it was legal and if you and your parents were level headed enough to take proper precautions (not driving too fast, not going on major roads, strapping you down, making sure the tailgate is up, etc) and you, as an individual, were prepared for the risk, then yea, I wouldn't be opposed to it.

Everyone has their own sense of risk however and their own limits. In my opinion riding in the back of the truck, assuming you aren't an idiot about it, isn't that big a deal. I'd do it now and I would have done it in high school. Am I wrong for being willing to take a risk?

Should we make all decisions by playing to the fears of the most fearful? I know people who are terrified to go on roller coasters. I have no problem going on roller coasters. Are they right and I'm wrong? Am I taking too much of a risk? Should we outlaw roller coasters because some are afraid?

Personally I couldn't imagine getting on a motorcycle and heading out on the highway. For me personally that is too much risk and I'd be afraid to do it. Does that mean I think motorcycles should be banned? Or that anyone who drives a motorcycle is stupid or foolish or reckless? No. Its just not for me.

[OzzyKP]

It's that last point that's the problem. I've presented an example of someone who climbed Everest when young and now accepts that he wasn't mature enough to appreciate the risk.

Is he a liar? Is he deluded? Where's the wriggle room in your reasoning with that?

Again you ignore the rest of my post. Like you usually do.

If I presented a case of someone who climbed at 30 and regretted it at 50, does that mean we shouldn't let people climb at 30? Where does it end?

[self biased]

So your point is we should stop people from overcoming their future fears?

I may climb a mountain now, at 28, and then when I'm 50 I say "wow, I'd never do that now, I can't believe I did it." Does that mean I shouldn't be allowed to climb a mountain now?

did we read the same post? he said he didn't appreciate the risk involved because he was too young to do so. out of his own mouth! not that he regretted doing it.

i've met very mature young people that make errors in judgement because they don't have the bandwidth of experience to back them up. you can take the most mature 13 year old possible, and they will make mistakes that a 26 year old won't because of this lack of bandwidth.

god knows i did some pretty foolish stuff in my late teens and early twenties.

The trouble with most of what people here say is they make blanket statements that apply to millions of people without knowing those individuals.

you realize that on this topic, you often do the same thing? while i would say that some restrictions aren't ideal, there's quite a bit that's rooted in thousands of years of cultural bias. even the smartest child will do something stupid because they lack the experience to tell them that it's a bad idea.

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

Again you ignore the rest of my post. Like you usually do.

If I presented a case of someone who climbed at 30 and regretted it at 50, does that mean we shouldn't let people climb at 30?

Sure, if their risk perception at 30 is impaired. Through mental illness, drunkeness etc. I'd have no problem with that.

Just like if they were 13. Anyway, back to Johnny Strange. He thinks he really shouldn't have climbed Everest so young due to lack of maturity affecting his reasoning around risks. Is he lying? Deluded? Come on, Ozzy- surely that's impossible , right?

[Ecofarm]

Louv is intrigued by this new crop of Iron Kids. "I wonder if it's a reaction against the constraints we've put on our children," he says. "It's almost as if we've bifurcated the experience of playing outdoors. Either you stay inside, or you become one of these superkids who go after extreme experiences in the outdoors. The problem is that there's very little in between

This person has never heard of 'soccer moms'. This is not a "money quote", it's a "****** quote". It's trying to blame society; I bet the person who said this tries to blame society for other unusual situations, like "we're just victims of society". Yeah, I bet that fkr is "intrigued".


"I wonder if it's a reaction against the constraints we've put on our children".

He's putting the responsibility on the children and postulating that they are excessively "constrained". Pedo, clear as day.


1. Blame society.
2. Put responsibility on the children.
3. ?
4. Pedo

[SlowwHand]

How would that be different from now? 4 year olds get handcuffed and arrested in this country for silly things that no adult would ever be arrested for. In most cases young people get harsher penalties for actions that an adult either would never be penalized for or would get a slap on the wrist for.

Ever hear of an adult get locked up for 2 years for talking back to someone? Or for having slipping grades? Or for having friends that aren't approved of? Ever hear of an adult getting arrested for refusing to take a shower, or for drawing on a desk in erasable marker, or for being late to work?

Kids don't live in some care free fantasy land. If that's how people here think life is like for youth no wonder you are so hostile.

I'd have to see documentation of this, Ozzy. Like Wez said, I like you, but I'm not buying these examples.

You also bring up "blanket statements that apply to millions of people without knowing those individuals". What do you do for a living, again? That's right, you make blanket statements that apply to millions of CHILDREN, without knowing them individually.
Why is that important? A prodigy doesn't mean that the vast majority can do things, whether it's play the piano or anything else. Rules are for the masses. Plus, I'm still waiting on an answer about the DP. You're digging a grave for them, because your silence means "Yes, execute them" to me.

[giblets]

Why don't we leave toxic chemicals within the reach of four year olds? Free world.

[Wezil]

How would that be different from now?

So you agree then? They should be legally responsible?

4 year olds get handcuffed and arrested in this country for silly things that no adult would ever be arrested for. In most cases young people get harsher penalties for actions that an adult either would never be penalized for or would get a slap on the wrist for.

If you can provide cites for this than all I can say is move to a civilized country.

Ever hear of an adult get locked up for 2 years for talking back to someone? Or for having slipping grades? Or for having friends that aren't approved of? Ever hear of an adult getting arrested for refusing to take a shower, or for drawing on a desk in erasable marker, or for being late to work?

Methinks you are confusing "grounding" with incarceration. They are not the same no matter how many little ones tell you so.

Kids don't live in some care free fantasy land. If that's how people here think life is like for youth no wonder you are so hostile.

I don't think so. I (and everyone else here) was a child at one time. Life for kids can be tough. It's good prep for adulthood.

[Wezil]

2. I don't know your young self (or honestly even your current self very well) so assuming it is legal where you're at, I can't say if you were able to handle that danger and responsibility. Presumably your parents did know you. Assuming they made their decision on the basis of you as an individual and not you as an age, then yes, it is appropriate to say you can't ride in the back of the truck.

And you trust these people! Geez Ozzy, I was forever being "locked up" by my parents.

I said it was safe, they said it wasn't, AND THEIR POSITION WON! I needed you to fight for me.