Canada declares war on Switzerland

[Ben Kenobi]

On the winning goal because Iggy did it and Toews didn't.

Toews did it earlier in the game. No Toews, Canada goes home with a silver.

verifiable "A" on the jersey

As opposed to Neidermeyer's C?

Sure you can cite his vet leadership, but I think Neidermeyer and Pronger played a bigger role. It's verifiable evidence that the team looked to Niedermeyer first for leadership. To ascribe the nebulous quality of 'leadership' to Iggy alone is bias.

If he had another hattrick against the Swiss and they won 6-2 or something as a result , you would have just claimed more meaningless goals against an inferior opponent.

No. If he had scored against the Swiss, the Slovaks, the Russians or the Americans in either game, I would have happily said that Iggy was a crucial component to Team Canada. Look at my list. People who played their best when the games got tough. That, unfortunately for Iggy, did not happen. It leads me to believe that he struggles against top goalies and defenses, something we have seen all year.

[Guynemer]

I would rather debate how soon Yzerman should replace Bettman as Commissioner of the league (and I am only half joking when I say that).

****in' a, yes.

[Flubber]

People who earned a slot on Team Canada and impressed me, any of whom were not on the team, Canada would not have won:

Toews, Heatley, Nash, Getzlaf, Perry, Neidermayer, Weber, Doughty, Luongo.
.

Lets see on the criteria of "games that matter" we could start with the germany game as the starting point since that was the first one where they could have been eliminated. But thats inconvenient for you since Iggy scored twice so lets have an "eliminate blowouts" rule But if you eliminate germany on the basis of it being a blowout don't you have to eliminate the Russia game too (7-3 versus 8-2) as Canada had as many goals early as they did against germany . So lets Lets look at the last two games only-- crunch time as it were

Toews 1 goal
heatley 0 points
Nash 0 points
getzlaf 1g 2 A
Perry 1G 1A
Niedermeyer 1A
Weber 1A
Doughty 0 points

I'm not saying any of these folks shouldn't have been there but golly gee look at some of those goose eggs. On the criteria you apply to Iggy I guess they don't deserve to be there.

People who did ok but could have been replaced with other players without loss to team Canada:

Crosby, Marleau, Staal, Seabrook, Pronger, Keith, Boyle, Richards, Iggy.
.

So 3 assistant captains

Lets look at the stats

Crosby 1 G -- just happened to be the winner in OT
Marleau 1G
Staal 0 points
Seabrook 0 points
Pronger 2A
Keith 1 A
Boyle 0 points
Richards 1A
Iggy 1A

.

People who disappointed

Morrow, Bergeron, Thornton, Brodeur.

.

Morrow 1G
zilch else


Combining your replacable and total disappointment lists you would eliminate 3 goals from the overall 6 scored (4 assists too). So a good chunk of your scoring in the most important games comes from the people you would be replacing with Alex Burrows who will get magical fantasy hat-tricks.

Oh and on d-- I generally hate Pronger and thought he was awful in the RR portion but 2 assists in the semi and a great defensive game by him in the final speak volumes

Replace Keith? you are funny-- he was a horse out there.


So who do you replace keith Seabrook and Boyle with exacty? Let me guess there's a d-man in Vancouver who had 10 points back in junior and whose mother says used to be good on the powerplay

[Ben Kenobi]

Lets see on the criteria of "games that matter" we could start with the germany game as the starting point since that was the first one where they could have been eliminated.

Did you seriously think they would be threatened? I saw zero people suggesting that Canada's run would end, most people seeing it as a training run.

But thats inconvenient for you since Iggy scored twice so lets have an "eliminate blowouts" rule But if you eliminate germany on the basis of it being a blowout don't you have to eliminate the Russia game too (7-3 versus 8-2) as Canada had as many goals early as they did against germany.

I'm not saying any of these folks shouldn't have been there but golly gee look at some of those goose eggs. On the criteria you apply to Iggy I guess they don't deserve to be there.

Complete and utter bull****. Why not be honest and apply the principles that I said? Take out Germany and Norway. Keep Russia.

Toews, Nash, Marleau, Boyle for 2, Getzlaf, Morrow, Perry, Getzlaf, Weber, Toews.

For that reason I include the Swiss game, who played well, and the Russians, because they have both defeated us at some point in the past. I saw many threads suggesting that it was Canada who could be bounced out.

[Ben Kenobi]

So who do you replace keith Seabrook and Boyle with exacty? Let me guess there's a d-man in Vancouver who had 10 points back in junior and whose mother says used to be good on the powerplay

Some kid called Bouwmeester, and another kid called Hamhuis. From my list I'm losing only 2g and 2a, and I don't see why Burrows would not have made up that production.

My forwards:

Burrows/Crosby/Heatley
Marleau/Thornton/St.Louis
Sharp/Toews/Nash
Stamkos/Getzlaf/Perry

Neidermeyer//Weber
Seabrook//Keith
Pronger//Doughty

Hamhuis,Bouwmeester

Luongo, Brodeur, Fleury

[Flubber]

Toews did it earlier in the game. No Toews, Canada goes home with a silver.

.

On that logic , every pass made, every time a defenceman blocked a shot or held a guy out you could make the same argument. Since you seem to think other players are interchangeable why on your logic wasn't Toews? (I am not arguing against Toews in anyway just asking) If Stamkos is there for that rebound why doesn't he pot it?

Also if Canada doesn't have a lead every other aspect of the game changes from line selections to the pulling of the goalie. If they don't pull the goalie does parise score ?

As opposed to Neidermeyer's C?

Sure you can cite his vet leadership, but I think Neidermeyer and Pronger played a bigger role. It's verifiable evidence that the team looked to Niedermeyer first for leadership. To ascribe the nebulous quality of 'leadership' to Iggy alone is bias.

never ever said Iggy alone. But all the folks with letters were chosen for a reason. Oh ya and interesting to me that 3 assistant captains were on your could easily be replaced list including Pronger

No. If he had scored against the Swiss, the Slovaks, the Russians or the Americans in either game, I would have happily said that Iggy was a crucial component to Team Canada. Look at my list. People who played their best when the games got tough. That, unfortunately for Iggy, did not happen. It leads me to believe that he struggles against top goalies and defenses, something we have seen all year.

Score so an assist on a great play on a game winner conveniently doesn't count

A Swiss game that people think should be an easy win but is a game that ultimately doesn't matter for anything counts but an elimination game where people feel the same thing doesn't.

A German blowout doesn't count while a Russian blowout does

So what determines-- is it the expectation related to the game or how the actually went since you flip back and forth depending on what is convenient-- Asher is right you are completely intellectually dishonest? If Iggy had scored 3 in the first US game you would be discounting all RR games no doubt.

[Flubber]

Some kid called Bouwmeester, and another kid called Hamhuis. From my list I'm losing only 2g and 2a, and I don't see why Burrows would not have made up that production.

Boumeester-- sorry I am a fan of the guy and maybe he should have edged out Seabrook but no way on Keith or even Pronger based on his play in the final

oh and I had Morrow and marleau scoring in the semi and Crosby in the final

Pronger had 2A in the semi while Richards and Iggy in the final


So Burrows alone would have gotten 2 G 2 A in those games-- ya sure

Thanks ben you made me laugh -- It was a deep belly laugh

[Ben Kenobi]

Why not? He's played well all year.

Anyways, that would be my roster, but then I am not Stevie Y.

[Ben Kenobi]

Since you seem to think other players are interchangeable why on your logic wasn't Toews? (I am not arguing against Toews in anyway just asking) If Stamkos is there for that rebound why doesn't he pot it?

From the effort I saw from Toews the whole series, I don't think Canada could have replaced him. IMO, he was the MVP of team Canada. He made plays when nobody else stepped up. I wonder what he could have done with Sharp as his linemate.

Oh ya and interesting to me that 3 assistant captains were on your could easily be replaced list including Pronger

I think Pronger could have been replaced by either Hamhuis or Bouwmeester, and I think that Iggy could have been replaced by St. Louis. I would have liked to see a first line with Crosby and Heatley.

A Swiss game that people think should be an easy win but is a game that ultimately doesn't matter for anything counts but an elimination game where people feel the same thing doesn't.

It was a game that made their road much more difficult. It counted for much, much more than the Norwegian game. That, plus the fact that the Swiss eliminated us last olympics.

If Iggy had scored 3 in the first US game you would be discounting all RR games no doubt.

As you say, we should rely on facts and not speculation. The facts show that Iggy did not score in either game against the USA. This is a mark against him. I assure you, had he scored even 1 goal against the USA, I would have happily added him into the 'exceeded expectations' category and placed him in the top category.

[Asher]

Ben Kenobi's ****ing stupidity in this thread is LEGENDARY.

If any moderator on this site knew anything about hockey, Ben would be permabanned for this level of stupidity.

[Asher]

To recap for those not familiar:

Iginla is an extremely well-respected, extremely well-rounded player that has represented Canada very well in the past internationally. In 2002, Canada's 1st gold in 50 years, he had 2 goals and 1 assist. He has won the NHL scoring title a few times and consistently puts up big numbers. In 2010, this year, he made a phenomenal pass, from his knees, while being pushed down by a defenseman and covered by another defenseman that resulted in the game winning goal in overtime. In addition, he led the team and the ENTIRE TOURNAMENT in goalscoring, was tied for 2nd in the tournament for overall points, and was 2nd on the team in +/-. He's also renowned throughout the league as a great leader, and was the only guy on the team to be named Assistant Captain in every single game.

Despite all of this, Ben says he did not deserve to be on the team.

[Ben Kenobi]

Ben would be permabanned for this level of stupidity.

Enthralling rebuttal.

[Asher]

Why not? He's played well all year.

Anyways, that would be my roster, but then I am not Stevie Y.

Burrows has played like crap going into the Olympic break. He couldn't even get 2G 2A over what, 8 games? And that's not even against all-star goalies.

[Asher]

Enthralling rebuttal.

What the **** is there to rebut? YOU DON'T EVEN HAVE ANY CONCEPT OF WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT.

You are the ******* who twice said Burrows was outproducing Iginla this year in the NHL, WHICH WAS NEVER TRUE.

You are a pathologically lying homophobic homosexual mentally disabled pathetic excuse for a human being who uses Christianity as an excuse for his bigotry and as a way to look beyond how hopeless and helpless you are in life and search for higher meaning.

You've constructed a ****ing fantasy world that does not at all correspond to reality. Every minute detail in life becomes affected by this, including ****ing mundane **** like NHL statistics. You are the most deluded and worthless human being I've ever had the misfortune of encountering.

You need serious help as it seems to only be getting worse. You genuinely have mental health issues. This thread, although about hockey, really exemplifies the need for it.

[Asher]

How was that for a rebuttal, mother****er?