CanPol - Fall election: Do we have an issue yet?

[Flubber]

So then why am I forced to pay for other people's abortions? It's not right.

Ben we 'pay' for all kinds of things that we personally may not agree with. For instance a relatively rich guy gets drunk and beats himself to a pulp while drunk driving. Pacifists see their money used to support the military. heck I'm betting that Harpers attempt to end gay marriage had costs which were partly paid for by gay married taxpayers. Suck it up

[Flubber]

You know it's really interesting.

This bill would permit 90 percent of all abortions, and yet it's not enough for some.

I'm glad to see how well compromises are received.

I just don't want to be the widower by being denied a choice to end a pregnancy when my wife's health is in danger

[Flubber]

Then don't bring it up into the discussion. You brought it up, I'm asking you because I want to understand better what's going on in your head. That is all. You think I find this amusing? Far from it.

.

Ben relating a blow by blow of a medical history is not something I will do. But consistent in your head is some idea of an "emergency". Thats not how a lot of these decisions get made-- its not "the baby needs to come out now"

Its "you are at 14 weeks and it appears that condition x is getting worse. It could cause x or y or z-- the condition will get worse as the pregnancy progresses" The condition will likely become become serious but may or may not kill the mom. By the time you know its life threatening the heart or lung or kidney functions are so bad that even a c-section (a relatively minor surgery in some respects would be a shock to the body.

Since its not in an emergency (Mom won't die today)and its past your magical 12 weeks, this family would be denied an abortion. Ben -- not everyone who gets pregnant is in perfect health to start. So you are saying this family has to continue until the mom is on death's door in the hope they will get to some viability threshold so they can deliver a 24 week old premie by c-section that will likely have multiple health issues

[Flubber]

Actually I do, but thanks for playing.

So Ben where does this deep understanding of the struggles a couple might face when deciding whether or not to abort a much desired child in the face of medical complications come from. Have you been in the room when a family has medical choices and options laid out for them? Isn't your persona on here a single virgin?

[Flubber]

In case Ben is still blathering on, there are already almost no abortions performed when the fetus would be viable. The CDC reports that in the US 1.4% of all abortions were performed at 21 weeks or later, while the Canadian Medical Association reports even fewer (<0.5%) are performed late term in Canada (20 weeks or later)

Of course thats the case and its as it should be. People who firmly want an abortion as birth control will get one early when it is easier. There is no logical reason to ever want an abortion later as opposed to earlier if the reason is simple choice.

But medical issues arise whenever.

[Flubber]

Oh and Wezil-- it seems as if the CPC intends to roll out their own EI reforms-- If they adopt or better most of the Liberal proposals they may gut the justification for an election. Ignatieuf may still try to force one but he'll need another "reason" - I'm sure something will come up-- Its not like these politicos need a real issue to divide them

[KrazyHorse]

Of course thats the case and its as it should be. People who firmly want an abortion as birth control will get one early when it is easier. There is no logical reason to ever want an abortion later as opposed to earlier if the reason is simple choice.

But medical issues arise whenever.

I think that medical issues probably play a part in a large number of the later abortions.

[KrazyHorse]

Ben's probably claiming that he knows all about abortion because he's a cripple, and thus in any sane world would have been aborted.

[Wezil]

Oh and Wezil-- it seems as if the CPC intends to roll out their own EI reforms-- If they adopt or better most of the Liberal proposals they may gut the justification for an election. Ignatieuf may still try to force one but he'll need another "reason" - I'm sure something will come up-- Its not like these politicos need a real issue to divide them

Yeah, they will steal each others issues when they can. CPC will tinker with EI, the LIbs will announce a continuance of the home reno refund...


Yesterday's polls show Iggy taking the election talk on the chin. They better have a damn fine plan in mind else Iggy could conceivably do worse than Dion.

[Flubber]

I think that medical issues probably play a part in a large number of the later abortions.

Precisely the point-- Women that simply choose to have an abortion would choose to do it earlier

[Flubber]

Yesterday's polls show Iggy taking the election talk on the chin. They better have a damn fine plan in mind else Iggy could conceivably do worse than Dion.

Its difficult to believe anyone could do worse than Dion. But anti-election feeling is probably stronger now-- Ignatieuf will need to have a decent case for an election or there could be an anti-Liberal backlash

[Ben Kenobi]

So Ben where does this deep understanding of the struggles a couple might face when deciding whether or not to abort a much desired child in the face of medical complications come from. Have you been in the room when a family has medical choices and options laid out for them? Isn't your persona on here a single virgin?

I'm not married yet, and I don't have any children. One of the reasons I'm waiting is because of my experiences with the contrary, what I've seen friends and family go through over the years. I had a very good friend of mine choose to have an abortion for reasons similar to what you've said, and she came and asked me what I thought about it. I told her this was my opinion, and that I thought her kiddo would greatly appreciate her decision to keep the baby and do her best with it. She was scared and worried, and ended up choosing to have the abortion. She got no support from her family, no support from the bf who walked out on her anyways. Her mom was pushing her to have the abortion and said that they would only help her out if she did the 'responsible' thing.

I've also had another friend who had some very serious complications on her pregnancy and came to me for the same reasons, wanted to ask what I thought. I said the same thing, and she agreed with me that it would be worth it in the end. She's a wonderful lady, and she just had her baby, and seems to have come through alright, but it was a difficult pregnancy for her. Her husband is a great guy, but clueless about these things and didn't really know what to say, or what she was facing.

[Asher]

Its difficult to believe anyone could do worse than Dion. But anti-election feeling is probably stronger now-- Ignatieuf will need to have a decent case for an election or there could be an anti-Liberal backlash

There already is. Their poll numbers, and Iggy's approval rating, have dropped noticeably since he started this charade.

[Ben Kenobi]

I think that medical issues probably play a part in a large number of the later abortions.

Do you have any evidence of this? I would agree, if you included things like downs syndrome. People are really big on aborting children with down's syndrome.

[Ben Kenobi]

Its "you are at 14 weeks and it appears that condition x is getting worse. It could cause x or y or z-- the condition will get worse as the pregnancy progresses" The condition will likely become become serious but may or may not kill the mom. By the time you know its life threatening the heart or lung or kidney functions are so bad that even a c-section (a relatively minor surgery in some respects would be a shock to the body.

Yeah, this is exactly what my friend was going through in her pregnancy. She had problems throughout, and the doc agreed to monitor. She actually believed she would lose the baby, but thankfully that didn't happen, and her baby was born about a week ago. Over 7 pounds.

Since its not in an emergency (Mom won't die today)and its past your magical 12 weeks, this family would be denied an abortion. Ben -- not everyone who gets pregnant is in perfect health to start.

Oh, I'm quite aware of that, pre-existing conditions on top of pregnancy can really cause difficulties.

So you are saying this family has to continue until the mom is on death's door in the hope they will get to some viability threshold so they can deliver a 24 week old premie by c-section that will likely have multiple health issues.

My hope is that the existing condition can be monitored and worked around as long as possible. As you said it is not an emergency yet, and may become one later on.