[serious] Off Topic Moderation Input - Part 2

[Ben Kenobi]

I've pointed out how you are a terrible Christian. Of the things I listed above, I have done some of the same. But I haven't taken the Lord's name in vain at least

The point being that you consider Christianity to be a moral standard that people should live by.

You're making my argument for me. We're not arguing atheist principles, but rather Christian ones.

c) related to b and who is a better Christian, you are much better at turning people off Christianity than I am as well.

I remember the days when Poly used to boast of converting Christians away from their faith. Now the best they do is argue, "You suck at being a Christian". Kind of loses the whole thrust of the argument.

I'm not the type to ask myself questions that have no application to reality.

You're the one who initiated this whole confrontation, not me. Why is someone who isn't a Christian arguing that people should adhere by Christian principles?

[Aeson]

The point being that you consider Christianity to be a moral standard that people should live by.

No. You do. I'm simply pointing out how you fail by that standard ... more than most of the people you take to task by that standard. MrFun is a much better Christian than you for instance. (I'm not saying that in the same way I was referring to myself either ... he's actually a good Christian in an absolute evaluation, rather than just relative to you.)

I remember the days when Poly used to boast of converting Christians away from their faith. Now the best they do is argue, "You suck at being a Christian". Kind of loses the whole thrust of the argument.

a) I've never tried to convert away Christians. To the extent that people on this board or that I know in real life exhibit Christian ideals I would always support them in that.
b) you've probably done more than anyone else on Poly to turn people off of Christianity.

You're the one who initiated this whole confrontation, not me. Why is someone who isn't a Christian arguing that people should adhere by Christian principles?

No, you started the confrontation by your incessant attacks against good people like MrFun and their relationships. Then by misrepresenting Molly's statement, which I corrected you on. (I did so in a way where I didn't express anything except to clarify what Molly was saying.) Instead of taking that correction (which was the correct thing to do) you instead decided to spread a falsehood about my relationship, as well as make insinuations about my relationship based on that falsehood.

Now you're trying to lie about how this discussion has gone.

[Aeson]

Do you not believe it is a commandment, Aeson?

"Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me."

How can you claim to Love God when you are always attacking him, belittling his creations, and willfully ignoring his laws?

[Ben Kenobi]

No. You do. I'm simply pointing out how you fail by that standard

Again, who cares? If you believe that Christianity is a bunch of fairy tales that believers tell lies to themselves for comfort - wouldn't you be happy with someone who you consider a poor Christian? Your argument rests on the preposition that Christianity is a valid moral philosophy. Else it makes no sense to castigate someone for failing to live up to the standards. The question really isn't, "why does Ben suck as a Christian", the answer becomes "why is Christianity the standard", and not say, dianetics.

MrFun is a much better Christian than you for instance.

Do you believe that homosexuality is sinful?

a) I've never tried to convert away Christians. To the extent that people on this board or that I know in real life exhibit Christian ideals I would always support them in that.

It has been part and parcel of Poly in years past. This has changed.

b) you've probably done more than anyone else on Poly to turn people off of Christianity.

Why do you say that?

No, you started the confrontation by your incessant attacks against good people like MrFun and their relationships.

What does Christianity teach on this matter, Aeson? Mr. Fun calls himself a Christian, but the Bible is very clear that homosexuality is a sin. You consider it an attack, by me stating what Christianity actually teach. I consider it a necessity in order for people to understand what Christianity actually does teach to correct others. Someone who claims to be a Christian who teaches things contrary to Christ is a problem, as other people who are less familiar with Christian teachings come to believe things that are incorrect. This is case in point here.

What if Mr. Fun is wrong? What's going to happen to those people who get this wrong, Aeson?

Instead of taking that correction (which was the correct thing to do) you instead decided to spread a falsehood about my relationship, as well as make insinuations about my relationship based on that falsehood.

I fail to see how asserting that you were married is a malicious distortion of your relationship. If anything, I gave you the benefit of the doubt.

[Ben Kenobi]

"Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me."

How can you claim to Love God when you are always attacking him, belittling his creations, and willfully ignoring his laws?

You did not answer the question, Aeson.

The question is - "Love the Lord God, with all your heart mind, soul and strength" - is this a commandment?

[Aeson]

You did not answer the question, Aeson.

The question is - "Love the Lord God, with all your heart mind, soul and strength" - is this a commandment?

I did, you just aren't bright enough to understand. Yes, it's a commandment. Yes, it's one you break constantly by attacking "the least of these" over and over again ... essentially attacking God, and ignoring his commandments.

[Wezil]

...and he trolls another one.

You guys find him absolutely irresistible.

[Ben Kenobi]

Yes, it's a commandment.

Loving God comes first. Absolutely anything that you do without him will not be fruitful.

Yes, it's one you break constantly by attacking "the least of these"

What about when St. Paul states when he says, "accept Correction as discipline - for God is loving you as true sons". Either Christianity teaches that homosexuality is sinful or it does not. If it does - then I have an obligation to other christians to correct them (and them me), when they get it wrong.

[Aeson]

Again, who cares? If you believe that Christianity is a bunch of fairy tales that believers tell lies to themselves for comfort - wouldn't you be happy with someone who you consider a poor Christian? Your argument rests on the preposition that Christianity is a valid moral philosophy. Else it makes no sense to castigate someone for failing to live up to the standards. The question really isn't, "why does Ben suck as a Christian", the answer becomes "why is Christianity the standard", and not say, dianetics.

It makes every bit of sense to point out how someone fails to live up to their own standards when the whole point of their existence seems to be to point out how other's fail to live up to those standards.

Do you believe that homosexuality is sinful?

No, I do not.

You do.

So we can say in your eyes MrFun sins in one way.I'm pointing out how using other standards from your own religion, you are a much worse sinner than MrFun, and that the very act of pointing out MrFun's sin is a sin on your part! (Not just in one way, but in at least 3 ways. You are judging, you are casting stones, you are ignoring the beam in your own eye to point out the mote in another's.)

(I will point out that Jesus spent very little of his time preaching against homosexuality, and that's giving you the benefit of the doubt in regards to whether to interpret anything he said as against homosexuality. He spent most of his time teaching about how not to act like you do.)

It has been part and parcel of Poly in years past. This has changed.

Completely irrelevant.

Why do you say that?

Because you make Christianity look bad. You're an embarrassment to the faith you claim to have.

What does Christianity teach on this matter, Aeson? Mr. Fun calls himself a Christian, but the Bible is very clear that homosexuality is a sin. You consider it an attack, by me stating what Christianity actually teach. I consider it a necessity in order for people to understand what Christianity actually does teach to correct others. Someone who claims to be a Christian who teaches things contrary to Christ is a problem, as other people who are less familiar with Christian teachings come to believe things that are incorrect. This is case in point here.

Christ taught that you should essentially do the opposite of everything you (Ben) do.

What if Mr. Fun is wrong? What's going to happen to those people who get this wrong, Aeson?

If they don't repent, they might end up in hell along with other non-repentant sinners such as yourself?

I fail to see how asserting that you were married is a malicious distortion of your relationship. If anything, I gave you the benefit of the doubt.

It is a lie that you continually spread even though you've been corrected on it several times in the past. Your point in doing so here was so that you could make derogatory insinuations about my relationship with Net by referencing one of your backwards beliefs.

I don't much care if you choose to insult me personally, but your target there could only have been Net.

[Aeson]

...and he trolls another one.

You guys find him absolutely irresistible.

You can't troll someone looking for a fight, dumbass.

[Aeson]

Loving God comes first. Absolutely anything that you do without him will not be fruitful.

Then you should try it, because you're obviously not loving God when what you do to the "least of these" is hate and spite. When presented with your own sin, you harden your heart and continue to do it rather than repent. Obviously this is how you will be judged (if you are), not based on your empty words.

What about when St. Paul states when he says, "accept Correction as discipline - for God is loving you as true sons". Either Christianity teaches that homosexuality is sinful or it does not. If it does - then I have an obligation to other christians to correct them (and them me), when they get it wrong.

No, you don't have an obligation to "correct them". You do have an obligation to correct yourself ... which you resist doing for years now whenever your hypocrisy is pointed out. That in itself shows just what an awful Christian you are.You'll spend years casting stones at others for sins, while you are committing worse ones continually (even in doing so).

[Ben Kenobi]

It makes every bit of sense to point out how someone fails to live up to their own standards

Not when there's disagreement as to what constitutes the standard.

Do you believe that homosexuality is sinful?

No, I do not.

This is exactly my point. You have a different standard. It stands to reason then that you cannot assess a Christian because your standards are off.

So we can say in your eyes MrFun sins in one way.

It's not just who he chooses to sleep with. It's also that he teaches that 'this is not sin'. The church actually considers the latter far more serious.

I'm pointing out how using other standards from your own religion, you are a much worse sinner than MrFun

What 'other standards'? You're saying it's wrong for me to confront another Christian while at the same time affirming that it's ok to confront me when you believe I am wrong. That won't fly.

that the very act of pointing out MrFun's sin

Is it? In saying that Christ teaches that this is sinful? That's what correction is about and St. Paul says that we have an obligation to correct our brothers and sisters in the faith.

You are judging

It is not a sin for a Christian to correct one another.

(I will point out that Jesus spent very little of his time preaching against homosexuality

This doesn't change the fact that he explicitly taught that marriage was between one man and one woman for life.

He spent most of his time teaching about how not to act like you do.)

So your argument is now, "we can ignore what Christ taught about marriage". Sorry, it doesn't work that way. Plenty of others did. Luther, Calvin, etc.

Because you make Christianity look bad. You're an embarrassment to the faith you claim to have.

How?

If they don't repent, they might end up in hell along with other non-repentant sinners such as yourself?

So you see my point. You argument is thus - "I'm not wrong, you're wrong about homosexuality, homosexuality is not a sin".

It is a lie that you continually spread even though you've been corrected on it several times in the past. Your point in doing so here was so that you could make derogatory insinuations about my relationship with Net by referencing one of your backwards beliefs.

I'll be sure not to make that mistake of giving you the benefit of the doubt.

I don't much care if you choose to insult me personally, but your target there could only have been Net.

Right. Excuse me for assuming that you married the woman you love.

[Ban Kenobi]

The two most intellectually dishonest posters on Apolyton argue over Christianity or some ****.

[Ben Kenobi]

Then you should try it, because you're obviously not loving God when what you do to the "least of these" is hate and spite.

You've already stated that being wrong on this issue puts someone's soul at risk.

When presented with your own sin, you harden your heart

You're saying it's a sin for a Christian to say that homosexuality is sinful.

Obviously this is how you will be judged (if you are), not based on your empty words.

Hey, I had the honesty to actually convert to the religion.

No, you don't have an obligation to "correct them".

Yes, I do. Hebrews 12.

You do have an obligation to correct yourself ... which you resist doing for years now whenever your hypocrisy is pointed out.

You want me to condemn righteousness as sin, and accept sin as righteousness. This is all this is here.

That in itself shows just what an awful Christian you are. You'll spend years casting stones at others for sins, while you are committing worse ones continually (even in doing so).

The dispute is really simple. If Christianity teaches that homosexuality is sinful, then I have an obligation to teach what He taught, not what others prefer.

[Aeson]

Not when there's disagreement as to what constitutes the standard.

Your argument is with Christ and what Christ actually said. Good luck on that battle

This is exactly my point. You have a different standard. It stands to reason then that you cannot assess a Christian because your standards are off.

The irony here

What 'other standards'? You're saying it's wrong for me to confront another Christian while at the same time affirming that it's ok to confront me when you believe I am wrong. That won't fly.

The standards Christ taught, which you ignore to continually spout hate. You're the opposite of everything Christ taught someone should be.

Is it? In saying that Christ teaches that this is sinful? That's what correction is about and St. Paul says that we have an obligation to correct our brothers and sisters in the faith.

It is not a sin for a Christian to correct one another.

The passage you posted was that Christians should "accept correction". Something you obviously do not do.

So your argument is now, "we can ignore what Christ taught about marriage". Sorry, it doesn't work that way. Plenty of others did. Luther, Calvin, etc.

My argument is you ignore almost everything that Christ taught, and focus on one myopic point. (A point that many actually intelligent theologians disagree with you on interpretation. But that's aside the point for now.)

So you see my point. You argument is thus - "I'm not wrong, you're wrong about homosexuality, homosexuality is not a sin".

No. Your reading comprehension is as horrible as your willingness to follow the teachings of Christ.

I specifically gave you homosexuality as a sin for the hypothetical ... then pointed out how your sin is a worse one even in that hypothetical.

I'll be sure not to make that mistake of giving you the benefit of the doubt.

There is nothing wrong with being single, or waiting until you're sure/ready to get married. The fact that you claim marriage is the "benefit of the doubt" shows very clearly how you are taking something you are wholly ignorant of (to the point of being opposite of known facts) just to be derogatory of my relationship with Net, and both of our choices in that regard.

You're a horrible person, Ben.

Right. Excuse me for assuming that you married the woman you love.

That should read, "excuse me for ignoring that you'd already told me you weren't married, and instead reiterating my lie in an attempt to try to disparage your loved one, and then disparaging your loved one by disparaging the fact that you aren't married yet instead of accepting correction of a simple fact."