[serious] Off Topic Moderation Input - Part 2

[OzzyKP]

Are you calling me a bigot because I believe a 6 year old girl cannot be a terrorist?

I admit, I'm ageist. Book me.

You are a bigot toward youth and toward Christians. But you somehow don't think that counts.

[giblets]

Nah, you're a bigot because you don't like it when people tell you your blood is tainted. Your like those bigoted blacks who complained about black people's blood being separated from the white people's blood.

[Asher]

Are you calling me a bigot because I believe a 6 year old girl cannot be a terrorist?

I admit, I'm ageist. Book me.

[OzzyKP]

You are also a bigot. Why is your bigotry excused and not the bigotry of others?

You appeal to no standard other than things/people you like and those you don't.

[Asher]

Not all opinions are equal. I don't want to hear a racist's opinion, and I don't want to hear a bigot's opinion. They're free to have their bigoted opinions elsewhere, this is a site with educated, (mostly) sensible people who don't want to be associated with such vile people.

[SlowwHand]

One may not agree with Ben, but were he to be banned, he certainly shouldn't be the only one. His opinions may run counter to yours, but they're his opinions.
There are other logins here that make no pretext of stating an opinion, and merely flame.

Hauldren, with all due respect, you haven't been here long enough to open your mouth.

[Asher]

Here are the posts in question where he accuses DRose of being a selfish liar and put many lives at risk for giving blood: http://www.apolyton.net/forums/showp...3&postcount=34

http://www.apolyton.net/forums/showpost.php?p=5816197&postcount=55

In this post, he refers to a homosexual as "one of you"....and accuses DRose of lying in order to donate blood, which makes him "happy": http://www.apolyton.net/forums/showp...&postcount=266

This post is a bonus: In this one he compares gay men in long-term monogamous relationships (eg, me) to an animal that only exists in fiction:

http://www.apolyton.net/forums/showpost.php?p=5816308&postcount=65

And another bonus...that's the thread he was talking about how black people are more likely to be gay.

Another bonus: He said the reason gay teenagers have such a high suicide rate is that they were raped by gay men.

This is also the thread where he blatantly makes up numbers to slander gays, backs them up with fake citations, then ignores people calling him out on it.

THIS IS ALL IN ONE SINGLE THREAD. This goes FAR beyond his Christianity, don't you think?

[Hauldren Collider]

I agree with asher 100%. Ben does not hold debatable positions, he's either a troll or a flaming bigot and we should draw the line on this site somewhere.

Unlike other trolls, Ben isn't funny to anyone else, as well.

Ban Ben.

[Asher]

You can't be bothered to search for it, don't expect me to do it. (while the wording is important here!)

Anyway, I get the impression that you believe that Ben considers gay-blood unworthy in itself. That would be indeed a violation of the rules.

But I get the impression that Ben just believes that gays have a higher risk for infected blood. That's not an uncommon point of view. Our laws had, at least untill not that long ago, perhaps still today, an exclusion for gay blood donors as well for the same reasons.

To me it does not look worse then any of the many vile comments you guys made towards Ben. Of course we can always lower the tolerance of the Off Topic Forum.

But Asher, one honest question, are you really offended and shocked by the stuff Ben says, or is this one big game for you?

I am genuinely sickened and enraged by the stuff Ben says. It disgusts me.

He compounds it by intentionally being intellectual dishonest at every opportunity. While he's not expressing his opinion which consistently equates gays to pedophiles (and pedophiles to gays), or being so very disgusted by having the thought of a gay man's blood in the blood system even if it's 100% clean, he's intentionally misrepresenting the positions of others. He's not here to debate, he's here to stir ****. He knows what he's doing, there's no other excuse for his behaviour.

His presence at this site, as it is now...unchecked...is undoubtedly a deterrent to new visitors. I tried to get one of my best friends posting here (woollyleanne), but she only posted a few times before encountering Ben in one of the hockey threads and was aghast that such dishonesty and bigotry was allowed here. She hasn't returned since.

I fear your "spirituality" is blinding you to his flaws. It's not that he's religious and simply doesn't like gays -- it's that he lies about it. He's completely made up numbers about how prevalent HIV is in the gay community, for instance. When asked for a citation, he cites a study seemingly at random. When I actually get a copy of the study, the rate of HIV infection is orders of magnitude lower than his claim. Then he ignores it with a claim about "margin of error" and moves on. He constantly ****s in those threads with bull**** "facts", "stats", and "opinions" about gays that are simply slander. He paints the entire community at large with his derogatory paintbrush. Your point about gays having a higher risk of HIV infection and not wanting that in the blood system isn't the point -- others on Apolyton have agreed with that position and haven't gotten much argument. Ben takes things a step farther by expressing moral outrage that one of the posters here -- a gay man -- gave blood at a blood drive at his High School. He was then a complete virgin, did not do any IV drugs, etc. In other words, not at all at risk for HIV. Not only did Ben express righteous indignation, he accused the poster of LYING to people in order to give blood -- the scenario he posted essentially framed the poster like some psychopath trying to infect the heterosexual blood bank. It was absurd.

I don't know if it's an English problem, because your English seems fine...or if it's a sympathetic-religious-person problem...but you don't seem to be capable of understanding why people have major problems with Ben on this site. Which is alarming. Again, people don't hate him because he's religious or Christian (there's many people at this site that are better Christians than he is, and they're pretty much universally loved). Ben is a hateful, lying bastard who gets a kick out of it.

[Fve Crathva]

I should be banned for being sexy.

SP

[Robert]

You can't be bothered to search for it, don't expect me to do it. (while the wording is important here!)

Anyway, I get the impression that you believe that Ben considers gay-blood unworthy in itself. That would be indeed a violation of the rules.

But I get the impression that Ben just believes that gays have a higher risk for infected blood. That's not an uncommon point of view. Our laws had, at least untill not that long ago, perhaps still today, an exclusion for gay blood donors as well for the same reasons.

To me it does not look worse then any of the many vile comments you guys made towards Ben. Of course we can always lower the tolerance of the Off Topic Forum.

But Asher, one honest question, are you really offended and shocked by the stuff Ben says, or is this one big game for you?

[giblets]

I reported the thread containing the post about gays donating blood where Ben personally attacked DRose by implying he intentionally lied to give his tainted, gay blood during a blood drive. It was highly offensive, directly implying the blood of gays is inherently unworthy.

I guess Robert Plomp believes Ben when he claims it's no different from telling people they shouldn't smoke.

[Asher]

I reported the thread containing the post about gays donating blood where Ben personally attacked DRose by implying he intentionally lied to give his tainted, gay blood during a blood drive. It was highly offensive, directly implying the blood of gays is inherently unworthy.

Nothing happened for it. I'm not going to search for it, because I did report it properly the first time.

It was not a death threat, but it need not be to be disgusting, vile, and inappropriate for the site.

[Robert]

I don't think people understand how much Ben's simple opinions infuriate and enrage some people. It's a constant reminder of how stupid and evil people in this world really are. It's not something I want to see every day. When it's posted, it's not something I can ignore. I've tried.

I have never banned you for anything you said. And I completely understand where you come from. I have also stand up for you, when I told Ben that he is violating your core being and questioning your deepest personality. I hope you have read that as well. And I am serious about that.

And you are provoking Ben all the time with your threads. You seek the debate all the time yourself. And that's fine, apolyton is a place where all kinds of debates can happen. Are you glad that apolyton is like that, or do you only want to provoke others while others can't provoke you?

[Robert]

I've done this many times and have received NOT ONE response for explanation about why his hate-mongering slander and bigotry is okay, when it is in clear violation of a number of site rules.

Shape up, Plomp. I'm getting seriously annoyed and now that I'm about to have a lot more free time I'm considering making my own Civ5 site. Rest assured it'll blow the **** out of this one.

I believe that I have judged everybody alike.
I am sure that I have failed at that as well. Please point me to the posts where I (or other mods) have failed to judge correctly.

as far I as know has Ben never posted a deadwish of an individual member, which was the reason for this ban.

I'm still not cool with you over the fact that you solicited my help, we started planning things, then you started ignoring me.

You are right that I did not handle that good at all.
I was very honest about needing your help. We weren't able to create the environment where you could do it. Later we decided to move to a total new environment. But I have never explained this to you, nor have I kept you up to date. I will contact you in private again.

I am sorry.

You have a LOT to learn, and you're not learning or acting fast enough. Your defense of Ben here is just making things worse. The fact that you've banned people for essentially doing what Ben does 24/7 is simply outrageous.

I have a lot to learn, but here I am right.
There's a difference between what Ben does and what you guys do. You all are getting very emotional and in this case a ban was needed because I can't tolerate death wishes in any form. Ben is very clinical in his posts and apparently knows very well what to post and what not to post.

I can also state that I, and all mods, are defenitely not biased towards Ben. He will be punished when he crosses the line.
If I would act as a christian, I would already have banned him from Apolyton for unlimited time because I believe that he's spreading a wrong image of christianity and that worries me a lot.
But I'm an admin, and as an admin I stand up for the rights of every individual to express his opinion within the rules, no matter what his opinion is. As long as it's within the rules.

Once again, please point me to a post which in your opinion crosses the line and I will take action if you're right.