Irish child abuse

[Asher]

Ben is right.

Becoming a Catholic priest turns people into kiddy-fiddlers, and no amount of marriage will change that fact. He's talking sense.

I made my post above without seeing this.

I must be right, then.

[KrazyHorse]

If you have -1 as hetero, 0 as asexual and +1 as homosexual, you won't get a gaussian distribution. Gaussian distributions have means either very close to 0, or 0.

AGKLAJDFFAFSDF MY EYES

Secondly, as Kuci already said, they have to be linearly dependent on each other. Going from 100 percent heterosexual to 100 percent gay is a linearly dependent spectrum. Hetero-asexual-homosexual is in no way linearly dependent upon each other.

OK, now I'm just quoting this to cause KH pain too.

**** off, Kuci. I thought you had Ben on ignore...

[SlowwHand]

Some mentor you're turning out to be.
See, Kuci? What did I tell you? Ali told you. But noooooooooo. You didn't listen. What do you have to say now, hotshot?

[Ben Kenobi]

It's either that or you admit Christians are predisposed to kiddy fiddling.

You are missing a critical component here. Do you have evidence that priests are more likely to abuse then the general population? If you've made this claim I've not seen it.

[Ben Kenobi]

Becoming a Catholic priest turns people into kiddy-fiddlers, and no amount of marriage will change that fact. He's talking sense.

The vast majority uphold their vows. I've seen around 3 percent that do not. Pretty good ratio. Seems to me the problem is the few bad apples and not the institution.

[Asher]

http://docs.google.com/gview?a=v&q=cache%3ARNzn51rfar8J%3Awww.rentapriest.com%2Fweb%2Fpdf%2FCLERGY_SEXUAL_ABUSE.pdf+priest+sexual+abuse+rate+general+population&hl=en&gl=ca&pli=1

For instance, conclusions drawn from original quantitative studies of the subculture of the
priesthood and of Catholic clergy sexual abuse victims in 1997 and 1999 respectively were
that mandatory celibacy can lead to socio-psychological disorders such as substance abuse,
severe depression and intense loneliness. (Haggett, 2005) The latter (intense loneliness) was
named by the American Psychiatric Association as a "differential diagnosis" for pedophilia (the
abuse of pre-pubescents) in DSM-IIIR, 1993. The Bingo Report (Haggett, ibid.) indiated that 60%
of the priest population said loneliness and a need for intimacy as reasons for breaking their vows
of celibacy and/or chastity. Clergy abuse victims in the retrospective study concurred in
naming "loneliness and lack of intimacy" among priests as a reason for the abuse.
When Bingo's findings were compared to general population sexual abuse (Finkelhor, 1994) vast
demographic differences between priest abuse and general population abuse came to light for
the first time:
A. Age and gender of victims--
Peak age of clergy victims
10-15 years old, mostly male
Peak age of general population victims 7-13 years old, mostly female
B. Duration of Abuse--
Clergy victims
17.5% one time only (56.7% one year or more)
General population
68.5% one time only
C. Age of perpetrator--
Clergy perpetrators
47.2% over 40 years old
General population perpetrators
Average age, early 30s (33% under 18 years old)
2. Mandatory Celibacy and Clergy Sexual Abuse
According to psychologist and celibacy researcher, Richard Sipe, a celibate priest begins to
struggle with his own sexuality between 9-13 years after ordination. In the 1960s-1980s a priest
was ordained at about 25 or 26 years of age. If his sexual/intimacy struggle began 9-13 years
following ordination, that would have placed him at 34 to 38 years of age. Bingo victims said their
perpetrator was over 40 years old (15 years after ordination). If priest perpetrators had been pre-
destined to pedophilia or ephebophilia, it seems unlikely that they would have waited until they
were 40 or so to act out since they had access to the same adolescents at 25 or 26 years old,
right after ordination.
If the problem was simply sexual gratification, or power and control as some have alleged, the
pattern of their abuse would mirror that of general population--68.5% one-time-only per victim.
However, 56.7% of the abuse by priest perpetrators lasted over a year, suggesting fulfilling a
need for intimacy, not just sexual gratification, or a power trip.
3. Homosexuality and Clergy Sexual Abuse
Nowhere in the John Jay College Report is it indicated that homosexuality is a factor (2004).
Conclusions drawn about homosexuality were merely commentary by clergy panel members on
EWTN the day the report was made public. There is no basis for the argument that homosexual
priests were responsible for the majority of the abuse, and there are too many arguments against
it:
The vast majority of male adolescent victims were altar servers when they encountered
their priest perpetrators (Haggett, 2005). Until the late 1980s, all altar servers were male. In his
first clergy abuse presentation to some 300 priests at the National Federation of Priests Council,
Fr. Canice Connors, head of St. Luke's Treatment Center, told the priest audience that sexual
abuse addiction was due to "immaturity being encouraged in seminaries. Seminarians are told to
not look into a woman's eyes--beware of (the) feminine. The feeling then becomes one of 'if girls
are off limits, maybe boys are OK'" (Connors, 1993).
A timeline: For those unaware, an optional celibacy decision was expected by Pope John
23rd at the Vatican II Council in the 1960s. The climate of the Council changed when Pope John
23rd died and Pope Paul VI took over. Pope Paul's decision to keep celibacy mandatory resulted
in an immediate and continuing mass exodus of priests--from 1968 to 1973. A subsequent
demographic study by two sociologists using diocesan archives for data collection determined
that 9 out of 10 priests were leaving to marry (Schoenherr and Young, 1993). These would have
obviously been heterosexual priests and they continued to leave at a rate of 1,200 per year,
according to Schoenherr and Young.
The John Jay College Study reported the highest percentage of clergy abuse
incidents occurred in 1970. 63% of the victims who responded to the Bingo study had been
abused prior to 1970, a period in which Sipe concluded that only 30% of the priesthood had a
homosexual orientation. I would therefore argue that homosexuality was not a factor in clergy
sexual abuse in the 60s, 70s or parts of the 80s, and John Jay College indications were that the
abuse slowed down beginning in the 80s when the homosexual factor may have been getting
stronger..
The John Jay College Study excluded all victims above 18 years of age. 36.6% of the
Bingo Report female victims were over 20 years old. Only 1.8% were adult males. Had adult
women been included in the John Jay College study, a different demographic pattern would
have resulted.
Finally, according to Richard Sipe today, "there is not one scientific investigation that
justifies a conclusion that there is a connection between orientation and sexual abuse of minors.
(www.richardsipe.com)
To summarize:
1. There are vast demographic differences between clergy sexual abuse and sexual abuse
among the general population abuse, demonstrating that there is something going on in
the subculture of the priesthood that is not going on in the general population. These
findings warrant less speculation and further scientific study.
2. The Vatican II decision in the late 1960s to keep celibacy mandatory and the resulting
"mass exodus" of heterosexual priests may have been the beginning of a major shift
from a mixed orientation to a higher percentage of homosexuality among the clergy
population. This may be causing confusion in clergy abuse research because of
changing variables/orientation, especially among those who may have had a different
experience if their ordination took place after the mid 70s.
3. The issue of manifestations of mandatory celibacy, as indicated in The Bingo Report,
affected the rank and file clerics. If power and control was used to achieve priests' goals,
that "power and control" would have been a strategy, not a cause.
4. The abuse of victims by Catholic clergy and the secrecy and obstruction of justice by the
Catholic hierarchy are two separate issues, two separate patterns of crime.
Conclusion: The sacred cow of mandatory celibacy is still the elephant in the living room when it
comes to the actual act of clergy sexual abuse. Sipe says it best, "The Vatican focus on
homosexual orientation is a smoke screen to cover the pervasive and greater danger of exposing
the sexual behavior of clerics generally."

[Asher]

The vast majority uphold their vows. I've seen around 3 percent that do not. Pretty good ratio. Seems to me the problem is the few bad apples and not the institution.

http://www.priestsofdarkness.com/stats.html

4% of US priests have been accused specifically of sexual abuse.

But "uphold their vows"?

* Four in 10 US Catholic nuns report having experienced sexual abuse, (a rate equivalent to that reported by American women in general), a study by Catholic researchers supported by major religious orders, has found. The study found that sisters have known sexual abuse less in childhood, dispelling what the authors call an "anti-Catholic" canard that girls fled to convents to escape sexual advances. During religious life, close to 30% of the nation's 85,000 nuns experienced "sexual trauma," ranging from rape to exploitation to harassment. A total of 40% reported a least one experience of that kind. NCR, 1/15/99 See The Nuns' Stories for details.
* The Wisconsin Psychological Association's survey found offenders distributed among the following professions: Psychiatrists 34%, Psychologists 19%, Social Workers 13%, Clergy 11%, Physicians 6%, Marriage Counselors 4%, and Others 14%.
* The Center for Domestic Violence found that 12.6% of clergy said they had sex with church members. 47% of clergy women were harassed by clergy colleagues.
* The Presbyterian Church stated that 10-23% of clergy have "inappropriate sexual behavior or contact" with clergy and employees.
* The United Methodist research (1990) showed 38.6% of Ministers had sexual contact with church members and that 77% of church workers experienced some type of sexual harassment.
* The United Church of Christ found that 48% of the women in the work place have been sexually harassed by male clergy.
* The Southern Baptists claim 14.1% of their clergy have sexually abused members.

[SlowwHand]

Are the denominal statistices from the same source?

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

The vast majority uphold their vows. I've seen around 3 percent that do not. Pretty good ratio.

So 3% is the figure you put on all the ones who have actually done it, been exposed, and that you are personally aware of.

What figure are you putting on all the other categories of paedophile priests?

[Wernazuma III]

* The Presbyterian Church stated that 10-23% of clergy have "inappropriate sexual behavior or contact" with clergy and employees.
* The United Methodist research (1990) showed 38.6% of Ministers had sexual contact with church members and that 77% of church workers experienced some type of sexual harassment.
* The United Church of Christ found that 48% of the women in the work place have been sexually harassed by male clergy.
* The Southern Baptists claim 14.1% of their clergy have sexually abused members.

See the superiority of Catholics?

[Alinestra Covelia]

It's about Alice, you know.

Alice?! Who the **** is Alice?!

[Wezil]

Are you going to make me find a link Sloww?

You can get anything you want... "except Alice".

[Kuciwalker]

**** off, Kuci. I thought you had Ben on ignore...

I am occasionally tempted. It's like passing an accident on the freeway - it's hard to not look.

[SlowwHand]

Are you going to make me find a link Sloww?

You can get anything you want... "except Alice".

Yes, you're correct.

[Wezil]

I don't know why Arlo thought the dump would be open on Thanksgiving.

Dumb ass. [/Sloww]