Irish child abuse

[SlowwHand]

They play that every Thanksgiving on a local Classic Rock station.

[Wezil]

I have the DVD.

[Ben Kenobi]

4% of US priests have been accused specifically of sexual abuse.

Accusations are not proof.

It should be noted that 30% of all accusations were not investigated as they were deemed unsubstantiated

Which makes for under 3 percent of all priests, which is exactly what I've said.

* Four in 10 US Catholic nuns report having experienced sexual abuse, (a rate equivalent to that reported by American women in general),

By who? Priests? Other men before becoming nuns? Makes sense to me that if these women came from the general population that they would see abuse rates no different from other women.

During religious life, close to 30% of the nation's 85,000 nuns experienced "sexual trauma," ranging from rape to exploitation to harassment. A total of 40% reported a least one experience of that kind.

'Exploitation'? 'Harrassment'? Does that mean someone commenting on a nun, "hey you are hot?" counts as sexual harrassment? Who is committing it? Men from the general population?

* The Wisconsin Psychological Association's survey found offenders distributed among the following professions: Psychiatrists 34%, Psychologists 19%, Social Workers 13%

34 percent? Wow. That's amazing.

* The Presbyterian Church stated that 10-23% of clergy have "inappropriate sexual behavior or contact" with clergy and employees.
* The United Methodist research (1990) showed 38.6% of Ministers had sexual contact with church members and that 77% of church workers experienced some type of sexual harassment.
* The United Church of Christ found that 48% of the women in the work place have been sexually harassed by male clergy.
* The Southern Baptists claim 14.1% of their clergy have sexually abused members.

It should be noted that none of these have clerical celibacy. Looks like if you want priests who sexually abuse, the way to go is to get rid of clerical celibacy.

[Ben Kenobi]

As for your first source, nowhere does it say that priests are more likely to abuse, all it says is that priests are more likely to abuse boys.

Peak age of clergy victims
10-15 years old, mostly male

Sucks that it's the gay priests who are the problem for the church.

[Ben Kenobi]

So 3% is the figure you put on all the ones who have actually done it, been exposed, and that you are personally aware of.

What figure are you putting on all the other categories of paedophile priests?

3 percent is the number I've seen quoted and corroborated by a variety of sources, including Pope John Paul II. It is illuminating that Asher's source also corroborates with my statement, despite being a hostile source.

It is also interesting to note that Catholics with clerical celibacy have less of a problem then other denominations.

[Ben Kenobi]

See the superiority of Catholics?

Yeah, it's nice to see Asher sticking up for us eh?

[Asher]

Accusations are not proof.

Hey Ben, what the **** is wrong with you.

How do you get proof that a priest fiddled a kid 10 years ago?

According to your logic, no priest has kiddy-fiddled. I bet you believe it, too.

****** overload in your first sentence, so the rest of your post has not been read for my own safety.

[Asher]

Sucks that it's the gay priests who are the problem for the church.

Pedophiles are not gay, they're pedophiles.

The reason why Priests kiddy-fiddle boys more than everyone else is they have far more access to them. This is because the Church is sexist, among other things.

Frankly, Ben, I'm 99% sure you were kiddy-fiddled as a child by a Priest. It explains why, when combined with your gay=pedophile assertion, you have this completely illogical and bizarre hatred for gay people.

[Ben Kenobi]

Hey Ben, what the **** is wrong with you.

What is wrong with you? Don't you believe in innocence until proven guilty?

How do you get proof that a priest fiddled a kid 10 years ago?

The same way you do with any other case of abuse. Chances are if you've got a gay pedophile, it won't be just the one boy involved.

According to your logic, no priest has kiddy-fiddled. I bet you believe it, too.

Hmm? I just said above that 3 percent of priests have engaged in abuse, which is exactly what the source you stated said. 30 percent of the allegations were without basis, and only 4 percent of priests were accused.

****** overload in your first sentence, so the rest of your post has not been read for my own safety.

Ooh. How long did it take for you to come up with that one? '******' is just so clever.

I'm going to call my mommy and cry now.

[Asher]

What is wrong with you? Don't you believe in innocence until proven guilty?

The same way you do with any other case of abuse. Chances are if you've got a gay pedophile, it won't be just the one boy involved.

Do some basic deviant psychology research. Most male pedophiles who fiddle boys are actually heterosexual. You're wrong if you think pedophilia is a sexuality driven action, just like rape.

And basically your argument is you can only prove priests kiddyfiddle if a large number of people make the same accusation. It's never just a one-off, the priests are efficient?

You're a creep. If you had the intelligence to join the clergy, I'd guarantee you're a prototypical kiddy-fiddler in training.

[Ben Kenobi]

Pedophiles are not gay, they're pedophiles.

Male pedophiles who abuse boys are gay pedophiles.

The reason why Priests kiddy-fiddle boys more than everyone else is they have far more access to them. This is because the Church is sexist, among other things.

The reason isn't the fact that they are attracted to young boys?

Frankly, Ben, I'm 99% sure you were kiddy-fiddled as a child by a Priest. It explains why, when combined with your gay=pedophile assertion, you have this completely illogical and bizarre hatred for gay people.

No, I've never been sexually molested.

I don't like gay pedophiles. I don't like pedophiles period, gay or straight. In this case we are dealing with men who molest boys, and so we are dealing with gay pedophiles.

[Asher]

Male pedophiles who abuse boys are gay pedophiles.

No, Ben.

The reason isn't the fact that they are attracted to young boys?

You seriously don't know the first thing about crimes like pedophilia and rape, do you.

[Asher]

Here's a simple article that uses layman's terms to talk to ignorant hicks like yourself, Ben.

http://blogcritics.org/culture/article/theres-no-such-thing-as-a/

There's No Such Thing as a Gay Pedophile

"Suppose Mark Foley had been caught having sex with a dog. And it was a male dog, so he announced, 'Yes, I'm gay.' Would people go, 'Oh, well that figures?' No! They'd go 'What the hell does that have to do with it? You were ****ing a dog!' And that's really what should be happening here."

That is paraphrased, but it came from a conversation I had with a psychologist friend of mine last week. We were discussing, yes, Rep. Foley, because it's what the whole country is discussing (certainly what they were discussing last week, anyway), and we happen to live in Washington D.C.

"So there seems to be an awful lot of 'Well, what do you expect? He's gay.' Coming from the real wackjobs," I said. "Which seems ridiculous, unless every gay person I know is secretly a child molester, and that's just bull****. Something like 95 percent of child molesters are men who molest girls, right?"

"More like 90, but it's even more bull**** than you think," said the Doc. "Not only is there no connection between being gay and being a pedophile, but actually there's no such thing as a gay pedophile. There's no such thing as a straight pedophile either. You're either gay or you're a pedophile. You're not both."

"Huh? I don't understand."

"It's like this," the Doc said. "See, heterosexuality and homosexuality are what we call 'mature sexualities.' This stuff doesn't really become latent until puberty, but when it does it's assumed that people are looking for partners with the same physical maturity level. So mature sexuality means not just that the people are physically mature, but that they're seeking partners who are physically mature. Okay?"

"Okay," I said.

"And so whether you're heterosexual or homosexual, you're looking for someone on your level. You're attracted to sexual maturity, whether it's strictly your age or not."

"Aha," I said. "But is Foley a pervert, then? Sixteen is post-puberty, most of the time."

"Eh, there's some gray area there," he said. "Legally, obviously; ethically, too; psychologically, definitely. Sixteen is post-puberty but still developing.

"But anyway," Doc continued, "let's just talk about general here, not necessarily specifically Mark Foley. So the thing about it is, if you're—not really you, obviously—if you're a pedophile, you're not talking about a mature sexuality. So really, it can't be characterized as gay or straight. It's neither. There's tons of really solid research on this: the primary sexual orientation is 'pedophile.'"

"So there's no way that you can be both?" I said. "But wait a minute. What do you call it, then, when some pedophiles go after boys and some go after girls?"

"A discriminating pedophile," he said.

"Like, I'm discriminating because I'm attracted to brunettes more than blondes?"

"Well, it's a little more chemical than that," said Doc, "but it's actually somewhat along those lines."

"Huh."

"I mean, think about it this way," he added. "Suppose Mark Foley had been caught having sex with a dog. And it was a male dog, so he announced, 'Yes, I'm gay.' Would people go, 'Oh, well that figures?' No! They'd go 'What the hell does that have to do with it? You were ****ing a dog!' And that's really what should be happening here."

"Ohh... ," I said. "So it really is just something completely separate from gay or straight."

"It's really not that hard to get your head around, is it?" Doc replied. "Gay and straight are grown-ups who go for other grown-ups. Consenting adults who understand what they're doing. That's normal. Pedophilia? Not.

"So it really gets me that if Foley does something with seriously perverse ramifications, so many people in America will hear it and think he's just 'that crazy queer.' I'm not going to say he's a pedophile or an ephebophile or whatever, because I haven't examined him, but if he is then he's not gay. Let's stop relating them at all."

[Ben Kenobi]

Do some basic deviant psychology research. Most male pedophiles who fiddle boys are actually heterosexual.

Right. Can't wait for Mythbusters to tackle that one. Deviant psychology is just as much as science as astrology.

You're wrong if you think pedophilia is a sexuality driven action, just like rape.

I can't see why pedophiles would consistantly target boys. I would think if it were solely about power, that we would see both boys and girls, but that's not what we see. We see gay pedophiles target boys consistantly and exclusively.

That to me suggests they obtain sexual gratification with boys and not girls.

And basically your argument is you can only prove priests kiddyfiddle if a large number of people make the same accusation. It's never just a one-off, the priests are efficient?

Statistically it's very rare for an incident to be isolated.

You're a creep. If you had the intelligence to join the clergy, I'd guarantee you're a prototypical kiddy-fiddler in training.

I'm a creep because I expose lies? Wow. Seems to me you are the creep who's doing everything you can to make sure that any pedophile who abuses boys is not gay.

[Jon Miller]

I could understand it if repressing your sexuality caused it to become perverted and screwed up.

So that would explain why priests are much more likely to be pedophiles, they have been repressing their sexuality and now they are perverted and twisted/etc.

JM