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Huge Canadian Politics Scandal Involving Prime Minister! Christian nuttery involved

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  • Huge Canadian Politics Scandal Involving Prime Minister! Christian nuttery involved

    Read the latest New Brunswick news. The Telegraph-Journal has you covered with all the latest breaking news, stories and updates affecting New Brunswick today.


    'It's a scandal'

    Questions Catholics demand explanation for PM pocketing communion wafer at LeBlanc funeral

    A senior New Brunswick Roman Catholic priest is demanding the Prime Minister's Office explain what happened to the sacramental communion wafer Stephen Harper was given at Roméo LeBlanc's funeral mass.

    During communion at the solemn and dignified service held last Friday in Memramcook for the former governor general, the prime minister slipped the thin wafer that Catholics call "the host" into his jacket pocket.

    In Catholic understanding, the host - once consecrated by a priest for the Eucharist - becomes the body and blood of Jesus Christ. It is crucial that the small wafer be consumed when it is received.

    Monsignor Brian Henneberry, vicar general and chancellor in the Diocese of Saint John, wants to know whether the prime minister consumed the host and, if not, what happened to it.

    If Harper accepted the host but did not consume it, "it's worse than a faux pas, it's a scandal from the Catholic point of view," he said.

    Henneberry said a statement from the Prime Minister's Office is in order.

    "If I were the prime minister, I would at least offer an explanation to say no offence was meant, and then (clarifying) what happened to the consecrated host is in order," he said. "I would hope the Prime Minister's Office would have enough respect for the Catholic Church and for faith in general to make clear whatever happened."

    On Friday, during the mass, Harper reached out with his right hand and accepted the wafer from a priest.

    A television camera lingered long enough to show New Brunswick Lt.-Gov. Herménégilde Chiasson, the next person to receive the host, raise his to his mouth.

    But the tape shows that Harper does not consume the wafer before the camera cuts away several seconds later.

    If Harper was unclear about what was appropriate during the funeral mass, said Henneberry, it "would say to me it's time to get new protocol people."

    Harper and his senior spokespersons were en route to Italy on Tuesday for the G8 leaders' summit.

    Harper will spend five days in Italy and on Saturday he has an audience with Pope Benedict.

    Requests for comment left with Harper's media office were not immediately returned on Tuesday.

    What Harper did or didn't do at the ceremony quietly raised questions at the ceremony in Memramcook Friday.

    When Harper took the host, "everybody just paused and said, 'What did he do with it?'"‚" said one official who watched the pool feed with reporters who were not inside St. Thomas Church in Memramcook.

    "You could see he was, 'Uh oh, I don't know what to do with this.'"‚"

    The curiosity among Catholics has not gone unnoticed among Liberal insiders in Ottawa, either.

    Henneberry said he has received a call on Harper's actions from a concerned Catholic, and he doubts that she is the only one puzzled and perturbed.

    "She said she was very upset," he said, adding he had not seen the footage.

    "She said, 'All weekend long it has been bothering me and I know I can't do something about it, but someone should.'

    "She can't be the only one in this country that is thinking that."

    Harper's religious affiliation raises a separate but related question about his accepting the host: As a Protestant, should he have politely declined it?

    The fact it was a national event that was televised live likely complicated the situation for everyone - the priests and Harper, Henneberry said.

    "If the prime minister is not a Catholic, he should not have been receiving communion and if he comes up it places the priest in an awkward position, especially at a national funeral because everyone is watching," he said.

    But Rev. Arthur Bourgeois, who delivered the homily, did not have a problem with the prime minister accepting the host.

    "Usually, to partake in holy communion in the Catholic Church, you have to be a member of it, but if you're not, exceptionally sometimes at major occasions (it is different)," Bourgeois said.

    "If you are up there and giving holy communion you are not going to stop and asked everyone if they are Catholic or if they are not Catholic.

    "You say the Lord provides."

    Monsignor André Richard, who is Bishop of the Diocese of Moncton, gave Harper communion but said he didn't see what Harper did with the host.

    "I didn't see anything wrong there "¦ because I was busy doing something else."

    Bourgeois said it is acceptable to decline the host by simply folding one's hands, which signals the priest to bless the person.

    Rev. James Weisgerber, president of the Canadian Conference of Catholic Bishops and archbishop of Winnipeg, said if Harper was not given good advice before the ceremony about what to do, it is a regrettable oversight.

    "I would feel very sorry for the prime minister if he wasn't informed about what the procedure is," Weisgerber said. "I would find it terrible if we put him in an embarrassing situation.

    "My concern is at a funeral of that level everyone knows what the protocol is."

    Harper could have simply consumed the host shortly after he was off-camera; or he could have hesitated because he expected a priest would soon invite everyone to consume the host once everyone present had received it, as occurs in some Protestant churches.

    His own faith tradition certainly does things differently, says an evangelical Christian journalist who specializes in religion and politics.

    Lloyd Mackey's 2005 book The Pilgrimage of Stephen Harper traces Harper's political and faith journey.

    Given his church background, Harper might not have known exactly what was expected of him as a Protestant at a Roman Catholic mass, Mackey suggested.

    "I don't think by himself as a Protestant adherent he'd be aware of the nuances," said Mackey, who added there would be people in his inner circle who should have advised him.

    For a number of years, in Calgary and in Ottawa, Harper has worshipped at churches within the Christian and Missionary Alliance, said Mackey.

    Communion in Alliance churches is typically held once a month.

    It would involve the seated congregation passing along wafers and, in small individual glasses, unfermented grape juice.

    Harper grew up in a background with United Church of Canada and Presbyterian influences, but he was something of a skeptic until he was a young adult.

    Mackey's book says Harper's journey to a committed personal faith was influenced by fellow politician Preston Manning, among others, and came after reading much-admired Christian apologists C.S. Lewis and Malcolm Muggeridge.

    LeBlanc, 81, died in late June. He had been the country's first Acadian and Maritime governor general, and before that, a senator, MP and press secretary to two prime ministers.
    Holy **** this is huge! I hope we waste more time talking about this.

    Discuss.

    Sidebar:
    In Catholic understanding, the host - once consecrated by a priest for the Eucharist - becomes the body and blood of Jesus Christ.

    Who ACTUALLY believes this **** and considers themselves to be an intelligent human being?
    "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
    Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

  • #2
    Apolyton's Grim Reaper 2008, 2010 & 2011
    RIP lest we forget... SG (2) and LaFayette -- Civ2 Succession Games Brothers-in-Arms

    Comment


    • #3
      This is huge!

      This is front-page, headline news on Toronto's largest paper.
      "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
      Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

      Comment


      • #4
        Maybe he's collecting bits of the body of Christ to build himself his very own Jesus in his basement!
        Monkey!!!

        Comment


        • #5
          "It rubs the lotion on its skin, or else it gets the hose again."
          Jon Miller: MikeH speaks the truth
          Jon Miller: MikeH is a shockingly revolting dolt and a masturbatory urine-reeking sideshow freak whose word is as valuable as an aging cow paddy.
          We've got both kinds

          Comment


          • #6
            UPDATE: Harper's aide SAYS HE DID CONSUME THE WAFER.

            Is this MORE or LESS offensive. Because now a non-Catholic HAS CONSUMED CHRIST.
            "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
            Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

            Comment


            • #7
              What if the bit of Christ the wafer turned into was his knob.

              That'd be homosexuality, and he'd BURN IN HELL! Right?
              Jon Miller: MikeH speaks the truth
              Jon Miller: MikeH is a shockingly revolting dolt and a masturbatory urine-reeking sideshow freak whose word is as valuable as an aging cow paddy.
              We've got both kinds

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Asher View Post
                UPDATE: Harper's aide SAYS HE DID CONSUME THE WAFER.

                Is this MORE or LESS offensive. Because now a non-Catholic HAS CONSUMED CHRIST.
                Much, much, less offensive -- as in not offensive at all. Local bishops can grant a special dispensation for non-catholics receiving communion. Since he was given communion by a bishop, a special dispensation was granted in the act.
                I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

                Comment


                • #9
                  I expected this thread to somehow involve Ablonczy being dumped over funding the Gay Pride parade. I didn't hear of this catastrophe until now.
                  Last edited by Wezil; July 8, 2009, 12:23. Reason: edit - spelling
                  "I have never killed a man, but I have read many obituaries with great pleasure." - Clarence Darrow
                  "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it." - Mark Twain

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Setting aside the obvious silliness of this (and many, many other) particular belief... this is simply a case of disrespecting a custom or ritual. Intentional or not, it's best not to do that, particularly if you're a politician.

                    -Arrian
                    grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

                    The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Wezil View Post
                      I expected this thread to somehow involve Ablonczy being dumped over funding the Gay Pride parade. I didn't hear of this catastrophe until now.
                      Yes, that's a fun one too.

                      Ablonczy was my MP from back home, I never thought she'd fund the Pride parade or do anything like it.

                      Good on her.
                      "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
                      Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        It's kind of a weird issue all round Arrian. I agree it was not wise for a politician to run afoul of the rules of a religion however he did do so while paying respects at a funeral...

                        Additionally, this would I imagine upset catholics (if anyone). Part of Harper's base is the religious crowd (the more fundy the more likely they are to support him). Where do Catholics fall in the religious vote/split?
                        "I have never killed a man, but I have read many obituaries with great pleasure." - Clarence Darrow
                        "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it." - Mark Twain

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Wezil View Post
                          It's kind of a weird issue all round Arrian. I agree it was not wise for a politician to run afoul of the rules of a religion however he did do so while paying respects at a funeral...

                          Additionally, this would I imagine upset catholics (if anyone). Part of Harper's base is the religious crowd (the more fundy the more likely they are to support him). Where do Catholics fall in the religious vote/split?
                          They should split and form a new party...maybe a Reform Party of some kind...
                          "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
                          Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Who ACTUALLY believes this **** and considers themselves to be an intelligent human being?
                            I do, as well as any faithful Catholic, but of course we know you consider us all to be idiots.

                            It is a massive public relations disaster.

                            1. It shows that the prime minister knows nothing about Catholicism to make a basic, basic mistake like this. It's well understandable that a evangelical protestant would be so unfamiliar with a mass as to not know this.

                            2. What is he doing receiving communion anyways? He's not Catholic. He shouldn't be receiving the wafer at all.
                            Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
                            "Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
                            2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              What argument is Ben going to make?

                              This was somehow an Ignatieff plot to make Harper look bad by shamelessly using the Catholic Church for political gain?

                              I wonder.

                              edit - and he cross posts.

                              Hanging Harper out on this one are you Ben? Faith over politics?
                              "I have never killed a man, but I have read many obituaries with great pleasure." - Clarence Darrow
                              "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it." - Mark Twain

                              Comment

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