Anarchy Applied to Family Life: Give Kids a Say

[Dis]

ahh but a person should have some say over their room shouldn't they? For instance my brother lives with me because he cannot afford to live on his own. I don't enforce any tough rules of how he keeps his room. (I am too lax I know). He's an adult, and shouldn't be treated like a kid. But I am too lax as I said. He's basically running me out of home. I cleaned up my front yard as it was turning into white trash hell. But I'm to the point I need to buy another house and live by myself. I hate living like white trash.

[Dis]

whatever on the non parent comment. I was a kid once you know, and I know how I was raised. I know what works. And I have friends with kids. I know how they raise their kids. I know what works.

I'm offended that my knowledge is seen as invalid because I don't have kids. What am I blind to the world? I can judge human interaction from a 3rd person's pov. I can see how kids interact with their parents. I am not stupid.

[Guynemer]

Incidentally--"****s" isn't caught by the autocensor? Interesting.

[-Jrabbit]

No, comment away, Dis. By all means. But the reality of parenting trumps outsider knowledge. IMO. Is your point of view valid? Sure, but only for what it is -- as you stated, a 3rd party observer.

I was a kid once you know

LOL thanks for pointing that out. I didn't realize you were so unique.

BTW, decorating her room was one of the areas where our daughter had relatively free rein, from a fairly early age. And it didn't take long for her to realize that that if it wasn't maintained as a habitable space, there would be a lot more unwanted invasions by parents bent on cleaning.

[Theben]

Well if this idea is bollocks than Montessori schools are too. And some are, but a lot aren't. When they were discussed here earlier this year a lot of you had good impressions of them.

My 2 cents: This could work with kids that are older than 4 and very dedicated parents with some fee time. Sadly few of us fit that description.

[OzzyKP]

Well if this idea is bollocks than Montessori schools are too. And some are, but a lot aren't. When they were discussed here earlier this year a lot of you had good impressions of them.

My 2 cents: This could work with kids that are older than 4 and very dedicated parents with some fee time. Sadly few of us fit that description.

Exactly, that's the issue, most parents just don't have the patience or time for it. It is much quicker and easier to say "I'm the parent, that's why" and be done with it. Which is why I say the "normal" parenting style isn't what works best for the kids, it is what is quickest, easiest, and best for the parents.

And a lot of people seem to be confused, (the article helps cause that confusion in some ways) but philosophies like Taking Children Seriously (that Elok linked) and others are NOT about just giving kids free reign and doing whatever they want. Believe it or not there is an alternative between authoritarian parenting and permissive parenting.

That involves joint decision making, non-coercion, and finding compromises that works best for all involved.

The example about sharing in the article makes this point. Kid A is playing with a toy, Kid B wants it.

Option 1: Take the toy from Kid A, give it to Kid B. Tell Kid A "you need to share" and if he gets upset because you grabbed a toy away from him put him in time out, or spank him, or otherwise threaten him.
Option 2: Shrug and let Kid A do what he wants.
Option 3: What I and others advocate, talk to both kids to figure out what they *really* want. Kid B probably only wants the toy because Kid A has it, maybe there is a game they can both play together, or an alternate toy that would satisfy one of them, etc.

Everything isn't always a black & white my way vs. his way situation. The only draw back to option 3 is that it takes time and patience.

[Asher]

Oh Ozzy, you're so simple and naive.

[Arrian]

Believe it or not there is an alternative between authoritarian parenting and permissive parenting.

Oddly enough, to my eyes it's you that seems to be having trouble understanding that.

Rufus

-Arrian

[DanS]

I have seen permissive parenting situations work very well and I'll trend toward it in my own household. Perhaps not so extreme of permissive parenting as the OP. It's basically how I was raised, and it seems to have worked fine (with a few downsides, such as a lack of discipline).

That said, two of my siblings have set up strict parenting situations and those seem to work fine too (with a few downsides, such as a lack of initiative). There are some kids who take this philosophy of parenting better than permissive parenting.

[Ben Kenobi]

WTF does this parenting style have anything to do with Montessori?

Montessori works just the opposite way, it provides structure and an environment which encourages learning. Disruptive kids aren't tolerated in Montessori.

As for this style, I'm not a parent, but I certainly wouldn't raise my kids this way. Kids need structure and discipline, these kids are going to be out of control later on.

[Arrian]

It's basically how I was raised, and it seems to have worked fine (with a few downsides, such as a lack of discipline).

As someone who was also raised by fairly permissive parents, I also seem to have come out fine, albeit with a lack of discipline. But "fairly permissive" doesn't rise nearly to the level of the OP.

-Arrian

[DanS]

Well, yes. But the philosophy underlying "fairly permissive" shares much with the philosophy underlying the method described in the OP and is fairly radical from an historic perspective.

[Lorizael]

My parents were fairly permissive and they raised 3 extremely smart, depressed, apathetic children.

[Asher]

The kind of kids who will sleep with their brother's woman.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

I don't at all see anything lame about 'my house, my rules'.
JM

What's lame about it is that all it teaches the kid is that she must always defer to power, and that power has no need to explain itself. These are great things to teach a kid if you want him to either be, or be a supporter of, Dick Cheney. But it is certainly not the lesson we hoped to give our daughter.

What I object to in the OP (and in a lot of arguments I've seen I've seen Ozzy make over the years) is that the argument is all about kids and not at all about families; it treats the adults in the picture as if they only exist to maximixe the kids' pleasure/fulfillment. Screw that. Such an argument not only does a disservice to the parents, it also completely fails to prepare kids for the world beyond the family.