Anarchy Applied to Family Life: Give Kids a Say

[Asher]

Back in the days of the red ensign...

[Guynemer]

This is a load of bollocks.

Children are pure id. If you are okay with them being pure id and behaving like selfish little ****s, by all means, do as above. If you are not okay with it, the only way to change them is to out-stubborn them. By all means, talk to them, listen to them, go ahead and try to reason with them. When that doesn't work, get them well-acquainted with the word "no".

[OzzyKP]

Sorry, I think I'll stick with what has worked for the last several thousand ****ing years. When your kid misbehaves - in other words, intentionally acts out in a manner they know, or should know, to be completely unacceptable, then as a parent you administer a smackdown, sometimes a public one, if that's what it takes.

You don't stop to discuss the reasons for acting out - you already know. The child is testing boundaries, and the further you let him or her go, the further he or she will go. Yes, there is a time for patient discussion - but there is also a time when discussion won't accomplish much, because the child is determined to eat a plant, or play in the street. The spankings are for their own good, and dammit, it works.

It isn't that that style doesn't work - it does. What makes it less effective is these **** for brains psychologists telling everyone it doesn't work, and creating a self fulfilling prophecy.

There is a very strong statistical link between corporal punishment and creating violent adults.

But I guess if you say "it is for their own good" then you have carte blanche to do whatever the hell you want to them. Like that mother who locked her kids in cages "for their own good" to "keep them safe". She was just looking out for her kids, right?

[OzzyKP]

This is a load of bollocks.

Children are pure id. If you are okay with them being pure id and behaving like selfish little ****s, by all means, do as above. If you are not okay with it, the only way to change them is to out-stubborn them. By all means, talk to them, listen to them, go ahead and try to reason with them. When that doesn't work, get them well-acquainted with the word "no".

Part of the reason kids are selfish little ****s are because parents are selfish little ****s. Kids observe their parents closely and take a huge amount of cues from them. If parents shout and hit until they get their way, then kids will too.

[Guynemer]

Did you see me say anything about shouting or hitting? No. I do not advocate that, at all.

[Asher]

Part of the reason kids are selfish little ****s are because parents are selfish little ****s. Kids observe their parents closely and take a huge amount of cues from them. If parents shout and hit until they get their way, then kids will too.

You have clearly never taken a basic course in child or developmental psychology.

I don't know where this "shout and hit" comes from, I guess those are your own childhood issues you need to work through.

But I'm not sure how most parents are selfish. Raising a child is a remarkably unselfish thing to do. The parents tend to worry over their children and dote on them for years on end, which is not what I'd describe as "selfish" behaviour. Children, on the other hand, are ABSOLUTELY selfish -- we've evolved this way as a survival tactic. A selfish child will do better for himself in survival. For example, he'll whine whenever he is hungry to get food. Selfish, isn't it...

[Dis]

lol is this an april fools joke? This can't be serious.

The parent teaches the young, this is how it's always been in the animal kingdom. How can the child know best? This is just plain stupid. Nothing more needs to be said.

And know father doesn't know best, parenting should be done by both parents, not just one. Although in today's society almost all of it is done by the woman. Which is just a horrible reverse of the male dominated families. Neither one is right. Both parents need to play a part in their child's lives.

[Elok]

My GF and I recognize that we may have a lot to learn and discuss once we get married. We are, however, agreed that we will not be parenting any kids we have by the principles of "consensual living." Why should parents teach kids to expect to get what they want, no matter how unreasonable? The real world sure as hell isn't going to treat them that way. Er, unless their parents are rich, of course.

[Elok]

Ooh, by checking Wiki I found this other, alternative "school of parenting," which offers the same bratty children, only backed up with philosophy! Yay!

http://www.takingchildrenseriously.com/

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Well, I've raised a kid -- I believe I'm the only one in this thread so far that can say that. And, in fact, I raised a great kid -- smart, funny, enormously kind, very responsible, and quite to close to both my wife and me. And I can tell you, I didn't raise her like that.

Obviously, there's no one way to raise kids. The OP might even actually work for some people, though I have to agree that I wouldn't want to meet the kids raised that way. But the problem with this thread is that (thanks largely to Ozzy) it posits the false choice between the OP and some kind of draconian disciplinarianism. That's nonsense.

As for what we did: we had rules, and we enforced them. But my wife and I also had a guiding philosophy going in: no arbitrary rules, no rules that couldn't be explained using logic and reason, no rules written in stone, and all rules open to discussion/debate. My daughter didn't always get her way, but she always understood why rules were in place and she never heard anything as lame as "because I said so" or "my house, my rules." When she got older, she got to be an active participant in rule-making, but only if she could make her case; if she wanted to stay out late on a Saturday, she'd have to explain how she's was going to stay on top of her homework if she did so (she could have also opted not to stay on top of her homework, but understood that if she did so we could opt not to pay for the small, private liberal arts college she dreamed of attending).

Worked for us. But I can't see how letting someone who didn't have even a rudimentary knowledge of nutrition and physiology dictate her own diet and sleep schedule would have accomplished anything positive.

[Jon Miller]

I don't at all see anything lame about 'my house, my rules'.

It's a fact of life, for everyone but maybe a few kids of lax parents. From the sounds of things, it really was the case in your household too.

JM

[Guynemer]

What Rufus said.

[Dis]

yup, what Rufus said. A child does not possess any knowledge of physiology, nutrition, or any sense of personal safety. I won't even delve into knowledge of social interaction. For instance, if a child acts this way at home, they will expect to do so at school as well. And would be very upset if they couldn't get their way at school.

I feel sorry for the poor teachers that have to teach these kids.

[Jon Miller]

And I mean a fact of general life too. If I go live with my friend, and it is his house, then it is 'his house, his rules' as well.

If you own the house, then it is your house, you get to set the rules of what life style you wish to live and what is allowed/not allowed.

JM

[-Jrabbit]

This sounds a lot like the Dr. Spock stuff of decades past. Far too extreme.

I do think it's important to engage your kids intellectually, and that includes considering their input into decision-making. But ceding authority to a 4-year-old is just madness and cannot end well.

We always took our daughter's opinions seriously, with the understanding that the parental units retain ultimate decision-making. But in situations where we didn't care about the outcome (selecting from a list of restaurants, choosing the color of a new car), we invited her input, creating a sense that her opinions had value. As she grew, she became more involved, but had to have reasons behind her opinions. Letting your child participate in -- or even drive -- non-critical decisions helps creates a sense of value and self-worth. But maintaining ultimate authority is also important. "Because I'm the parent and it's my job to decide" is a perfectly reasonable statement that actually gains validity and acceptance in your child when it's not used to excess.

I feel that one's children should be treated like people, with a point of view worth consideration. My daughter is a pretty damned impressive young adult (she's 21 now), and I feel strongly that her maturation was helped greatly by involving her in family discussions to an appropriate degree.

BTW, all the non-parents commenting in this thread are disqualified.