Ending the recession

[Velociryx]

If you have a filled pipe, and you call a plumber, and he tells you to rip everything out and repipe the whole building, do you listen to him, or do you get some Drano?

Has anybody suggessted that?

I mean..there's not NEARLY enough money in the bill for something of that scale, so I would say the question has nothing to do with the reality of the bill, but the answer, obviously, is to get a second opinion.

There's data that spin it both ways.

Personally, I don't care. We KNOW the infrastructure isn't perfect. There IS room for improvement, and those improvements WILL create jobs. THAT's what I care about. If the infrastructure gets a "D" or a "C+" is of little interest to me.

-=Vel=-

[Tuberski]

If you have a filled pipe, and you call a plumber, and he tells you to rip everything out and repipe the whole building, do you listen to him, or do you get some Drano?

If the pipe is collapsed because it is old and decayed, pouring Draino down the hole is useless.

ACK!

[Velociryx]

Tubes...off the topic at hand, but where DID you get that sig? *chuckles*

-=Vel=-

[DanS]

We KNOW the infrastructure isn't perfect. There IS room for improvement, and those improvements WILL create jobs.

There could be room for less spending too. Adam Smith's posts suggest that this is so.

[Velociryx]

There could be room for less spending too. Adam Smith's posts suggest that this is so.

Good. And I would say that Adam Smith is entitled to his opinion. I respect his opinions, and I'm sure he's got supporting data. So does the other side. At the end of the day, you're talking a matter of degree.

I'm saying that unless the numbers are staggeringly different, degree don't matter.

Jobs matter.

-=Vel=-

[Tuberski]

Tubes...off the topic at hand, but where DID you get that sig? *chuckles*

-=Vel=-

http://www.deepthoughtsbyjackhandey.com/

ACK!

[DanS]

Vel: Your post doesn't make any sense at all.

[Velociryx]

Vel: Your post doesn't make any sense at all.

Well, that's one way to avoid a fight. And thanks Tubes! I'll check out the link.

-=Vel=-

Carry on, please. I've got to get back to Candle'Bre anyway.
(but the post does make sense, btw)

[Agathon]

WASHINGTON - Crowded schools, traffic-choked roads and transit cutbacks are eroding the quality of American life, according to an analysis by civil engineers that gave the nation’s infrastructure an overall grade of D.

Hey, at least it's doing better than your culture.

[snoopy369]

Has anybody suggessted that?

I mean..there's not NEARLY enough money in the bill for something of that scale, so I would say the question has nothing to do with the reality of the bill, but the answer, obviously, is to get a second opinion.

There's data that spin it both ways.

Personally, I don't care. We KNOW the infrastructure isn't perfect. There IS room for improvement, and those improvements WILL create jobs. THAT's what I care about. If the infrastructure gets a "D" or a "C+" is of little interest to me.

-=Vel=-

You are suggesting listening to the plumber on how much needs to be fixed. Thus the point of the (wildly exaggerated) metaphor. I agree things probably need fixing; but blindly listening to the engineers and construction companies is NOT the way to go...

[The Mad Monk]

I would be interested in seeing if anyone has solid data for this...

GLENN: Thanks for being on the program. Here's what I would like you to do. Could you please show the stimulus package and show the government spending that happened with the new deal and show us the truth.

WOODS: Oh, sure. As you've suggested, with Obama seeming to be just simply shocked that anyone could dissent from, you know, what we were all taught in sixth grade about Franklin Roosevelt, I mean, he can't believe that people are fighting battles that Barack Obama thought had been won a long time ago. I think we're making progress when we make people like Barack Obama have to turn around and go back and fight all battles over again because these battles were won by the wrong people. So when you actually look at the evidence, you don't look at, you know, Franklin Roosevelt gave some sweet little speeches and he comforted everybody. When you look at the cold hard facts of the matter, from 1933 to 1940 unemployment averaged 18%. So that means the New Deal didn't work, period. And you can scream and shout and jump up and down but, you know, facts are stubborn things, as we know, and --

GLENN: Tell me about -- go ahead.

WOODS: No, I was going to say he tried pretty much everything that Obama's going to be trying. You know, he threw money at crazy projects, he hired people to, you know, essentially do the equivalent of digging trenches and then filling them back in again. He did all this and he did it year after year after year. And by the time you get to 1939, his treasury secretary was saying, "Well, let's see. We've spent more than we've ever spent before and yet unemployment is, well, by and large unchanged." By the late 1930s it had gone back up again. "And so all we have to show for this entire experiment is a whole lot more debt." And Japan has done the same thing in the 1990s. All they have to show for their stimulus is more debt. But somehow we're supposed to expect that this is the one time in world history that the stimulus package is going to work.

GLENN: Here's the thing. I asked Tom yesterday to write a piece for the free e-mail newsletter at GlennBeck.com. You can get that today in your e-mail and does it even have a name on it? Just, it doesn't. It's called Untitled by Tom woods.

WOODS: Yeah, I'm a very artistic person. All I could think is call it Untitled.

GLENN: You can get this and what it has in it is the beginning of the argument on FDR and the New Deal, and it has some of the facts and figures. And I have to tell you, if you know who Henry Morgenthau is, this is the treasury secretary. When did he become FDR's treasury secretary, Tom?

WOODS: I actually don't remember for sure.

GLENN: Okay. But he was best friends with Franklin Roosevelt. They used to say two of a kind about the two of them. In fact, I think FDR signed a picture of him to Henry that just said one of the two of the kind, something like that. They were best friends. For him to come out at the end and say -- and this is the exact quote -- we have tried spending money. We are spending more than we have ever spent and it doesn't work. We have never made good on our promises. This is FDR's best friend and treasury secretary: "We have never made good on our promises. I say after eight years of this administration we have just as much unemployment as when we started and now we also have an enormous debt to boot. That's a quote."

Now, where is the stat that shows that the New Deal worked?

http://www.glennbeck.com/content/articles/article/196/21300/

[Velociryx]

You are suggesting listening to the plumber on how much needs to be fixed. Thus the point of the (wildly exaggerated) metaphor. I agree things probably need fixing; but blindly listening to the engineers and construction companies is NOT the way to go...

But we're not blindly listening to the engineers. This organization is...akin to the BAR association for lawyers.

They, themselves, don't bid on contracts, and stand to make NO money from issuing their report. They collect dues from their members, who will continue to pay them, whether or not they get a few new government contracts.

But again, my main interest is in creating jobs, not dickering over whether the infrastructure is rated at a "D" or a "C+"

-=Vel=-

EDIT: At least not as far as I can tell. I went to their site, but didn't read all the fine print. It appears to me to be a dues driven organization and NOT a construction company who stands to profit from government contracts.

[snoopy369]

Guild/Union/professional organizations are in business to MAKE MORE BUSINESS FOR THEIR MEMBERS, though. Don't ever forget that.

And, the government could randomly create jobs ... the point is to create jobs that are needed, and spend money in ways that is needed. Randomly spending money is NOT the solution.

[Velociryx]

Guild/Union/professional organizations are in business to MAKE MORE BUSINESS FOR THEIR MEMBERS, though. Don't ever forget that.

And, the government could randomly create jobs ... the point is to create jobs that are needed, and spend money in ways that is needed. Randomly spending money is NOT the solution.

Well sir...I don't see it as "randomly spending money" - the infrastructure needs improving, regardless of what "grade" you give it.

But I'm willing to agree to disagree.

-=Vel=-

[Ben Kenobi]

Bull****!

You are saying that Prince George - McBride - Valemount - Jasper - Hinton - Edmonton isn't a big trucking route?

It's the second behind only the transcanada, and it's got a much lower slope.

I don't know why you are calling bull****.